The Book of Life

[Cntrysner]

13 hours ago, AdHoc said:

O.K. We'll just have to differ. But thanks for the exchange of ideas.

God bless.

Enjoyed it. 

[B-B]

13 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Just to add one of several examples: The thief being crucified next to Jesus asking Him to remember him. He didn't have time or opportunity to demonstrate repentance or be baptized. Yet that very same day he was in Paradise with Jesus. 

Yes, I agree.

[AdHoc]

13 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Accurate and well said. I want to tag something else, if I may.

Water baptism never saved anyone, and it is the second step of what a believer does after he asks for and receives eternal life, in trust, confession, faith, and repentance of what the Lord did at Calvary.

One that is not truly born again might as well have a bar of soap with them in the baptistery, river, or lake to take a bath.

Phillip and the eunuch are prime examples. I'll bite my tongue with sprinkling and infant baptism. 

Baptism is symbolic of publicly identifying with Jesus’s death, burial, and resurrection; in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Openly showing and announcing the old man is dead, we have been rebirthed and not ashamed of the power of the Cross. We will sincerely strive to follow in Jesus’s footsteps and follow Him, and Him alone.

The third step is:

Hebrews 10:25 (KJV) Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

In other words, you are joining fellow believers collectively as church members. Many churches (as mine) still require proof of baptism before you are brought before the congregation for church membership.

The preceding church membership is associated with individual church covenants and possibly doctrine.

The debate on the Book of Life never really got going, so lets "Re-Rail" the thread bit. Contemporary Christianity largely has the following doctrine:

"Believe in Jesus and repent of your sins and you will be saved from the Lake of Fire and go to heaven when you die. Refuse Jesus and you will go to a place called "hell" and suffer torment forever."

In this doctrine, two great institutions of the Bible lose their value and become redundant - Resurrection and Baptism. Serious Bible scholars however, know that these two events are prominent in the scriptures and so a debate as to their value ensues. But most debate is based on the above general doctrine and so the debate is flawed from the beginning. I will propose what I think is the revelation of scripture, and then apply Baptism with a very abbreviated explanation of its six functions. Then the reader can decide to discard it or not - just as I discard the doctrine of heaven or hell that the majority percentage of contemporary Christians hold.

God created heaven and earth in good order. God introduced government into His creation to maintain order. Natural Laws and angels made up this government. The Leasing Angel - Lucifer was charge with keeping this earth. At some point in time, Lucifer, impressed to the uttermost with himself, thought it no contest to be equal to God. Chaos ensued and the earth was mismanaged. God, unable to look at naked rebellion, covered the earth with water and restrained the lights of heaven that gave it light. This is mainly covered in Genesis, Isiah and Ezekiel.

After an unspecified time, God, always the seeker of order, restored the chaotic earth in six  24-hour periods. The last act of these six days was to make man, a totally new creature and give him the duty of subduing the rebels and ruling them in astern but equitous way (Gen.1:26-28). This new creation - mankind, was to corporately subdue and rule the earth, corporately keep a separate and holy Garden where a holy God could meet and have fellowship with His man, and corporately be a companion up to the standard of Jesus the Son of God. Man singularly ignored God's instructions and ended up with a nature that made him unfit for all his duties. The situation deteriorated to the point where God covered the pollutions caused by the union between angel and man again with water.

God is not the "ALL-mighty" for nothing. His councils are immutable. Though left only with eight fallen men and women, God continued with His plan for the EARTH. The eight survivors of the covering with water soon descended into worship of other mythical gods and God reached a point where He was left only with a Syrian idol-worshiper as a possible source with which to continue His plan. Just as He had raised the polluted earth out of water twice before, God caused His chosen man to pass through the flooding Euphrates River (Josh.24:2).

With this idol-worshiping Syrian, God made a pact. Abraham was promised certain things chiefest among which was that he and his seed would (i) possess the gates of his enemies, (ii) produce kings, and (iii) inherit the world (Rom.4:13). The only duty Abraham had was that an inheritor (the males in his day) would have a tender piece of his flesh cut off the instrument of human pleasure and procreation. Any male refusing this would remain Abraham's seed but lose the inheritance. 430 years later, Abraham's fourth generation, were led out of captivity by God to possess Canaan. They passed through a flood of water which removed the power of Egypt over them.

40 years later, anew generation of Abraham's seed had been raised up and trained for subduing and ruling Canaan and God's trained and chosen people passed through Jordan during its spring flood. The old generation was left behind physically, and by piling twelve rocks on the bed of the Jordan, the unfaithful of Israel was symbolically left buried in the death flood. Some 1,500 years later, because Israel refused to circumcise their hearts, the inheritance of the earth was withdrawn. Only Canaan was left. God the ALL-mighty now turned to another company to inherit the earth. Israel was overcome and scattered among the nations which God designated "the sea".

I propose the following six reasons why Baptism is vitally important to the Christian who has been "saved", NOT for heaven, but for God's plan to restore THE EARTH.

In Matthew 7.21-23 men who knew who Jesus was in their lifetime, who had His power over demons, who were at a judgment where only Christians will be and who were eligible to take a place in Christs Kingdom, were refused THE KINGDOM (not salvation from the Lake of Fire) because they did not the will of the Father in heaven. Baptism is a command. Any Christian who refuses it, whether he understands or not, has disqualified him/herself of INHERITING the EARTH by reason of DISOBEDIENCE.

In the whole Bible God has used a fallen situation to recover His plan. In every case the fallen earth or person has passed through a "flood" to reach God's goal. Since Baptism is the "sign" of that (Rom.4:11), the rebellious Christian who refuses Baptism, also refuses God's way to inheriting the EARTH.

In Colossians 2:10-12, Baptism REPLACES circumcision. There are three reasons for this. (i) The present body is unfit for god's Kingdom (1st Cor.15:50). (ii) Circumcision was good enough for Canaan - the Kingdom of Israel. (iii) But for the EARTH and the Kingdom of Heaven a total cutting off of the flesh is needed. Any Christian refusing Baptism will NOT INHERIT THE EARTH. He has refused his/her part of the Covenant of Promise.

In Romans 6:3-4 a baptized Christina will be raised from the dead "LIKE " Christ. But 1st Corinthians 15:35-42 says that the "stars" (the heavenly contingent of resurrection) DIFFER IN GLORY from one another. Any Christian refusing Baptism will NOT be raised "LIKE" Christ and not have the glory needed to inherit the earth.

The disciples of Jesus receive the Holy Spirit INWARDLY for LIFE (Jn.20:22, 29-31) and UPON THEN (outwardly) for POWER (Lk.24:49, Act:1:8). In Acts 2:38 Peter is emphatic. The second OUTWARD "furnishing" of a man with the Holy Spirit for POWER is dependent on his OBEDIENCE to be Baptized in water first. the one exception at the house of Cornelius in Acts 10 is explained in Chapter 11.

The disciple of Jesus cannot serve if his/her conscience is burdened. Baptism, as in the case of the flood of Noah, washed away the past in regards to the CONSCIENCE - 1st Peter 3:21. You cannot serve Gd without Baptism and a clear conscience.

Baptism cannot save you from the Lake of Fire. It cannot give you eternal life. Baptism is a "sign" that you cut off the whole body for SERVICE to God. And Baptism is a "sign" that you enter Abraham's Covenant for the EARTH. Christians who refuse Baptism for any reason are rebels and will forfeit the Millennial Kingdom.

[AdHoc]

2 hours ago, B-B said:

Yes, I agree.

Aaaahhhh! You touch an important point. The thief did not ask about paradise. He asked to be remembered when Christ entered His KINGDOM. But our Lord never answered a single word about His Kingdom. Paradise is below the earth (Eph.4:8-9, Matt.12:40), but the Kingdom is ON earth. Our Lord Jesus receives His Kingdom when He returns - not when He dies.

Think about it

Edited August 13, 2022 by AdHoc

[B-B]

16 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

Aaaahhhh! You touch an important point. The thief did not ask about paradise. He asked to be remembered when Christ entered His KINGDOM. But our Lord never answered a single word about His Kingdom. Paradise is below the earth (Eph.4:8-9, Matt.12:40), but the Kingdom is ON earth. Our Lord Jesus receives His Kingdom when He returns - not when He dies.

Think about it

Afternoon @AdHoc 😊

…I’m not quite sure if I’m with you, but thank you for sharing your thoughts.

please correct me if I’m misunderstanding, but are you suggesting that because the theif/robber on the cross was unable to experience baptism, he will be entitled to enter Paradise, but will not be entitled to experience/enter the Millennium Kingdom.

(apologies in advance if I’m getting hold of the wrong end of the stick..)

Edited August 13, 2022 by B-B

[AdHoc]

21 hours ago, B-B said:

Afternoon @AdHoc 😊

…I’m not quite sure if I’m with you, but thank you for sharing your thoughts.

please correct me if I’m misunderstanding, but are you suggesting that because the theif/robber on the cross was unable to experience baptism, he will be entitled to enter Paradise, but will not be entitled to experience/enter the Millennium Kingdom.

(apologies in advance if I’m getting hold of the wrong end of the stick..)

Yes. It may be startling, but that was the issue. The context is the superscription on His cross which Pilate insisted was to declare Him (Jesus) King of the Jews. The Jews were protesting vehemently and had already declared their king to be Caesar. Then the soldiers joined in and said if He was truly a king he would have the power to come down. No true king is without his kingdom and this was a subtle jab by the Romans that His "kingdom" had all fled. 

But then, to add to His misery, the one malefactor taunts. But the other has a change of heart. Jesus and His teaching were well known. He taught FAITH for the rebirth, sonship to God and the gaining of eternal life (John). And He taught the Kingdom predicted in Daniel. The malefactor, in a flash of revelation, declares Jesus a King Who would rule a future Kingdom. Imagine the faith needed at this dark moment to admit Jesus as Son of David. But there is more revealed to him. All through the gospels, and you can gladly check this for yourself, the Kingdom was to be HAD, or GAINED, by WORKS.

Faith causes the rebirth in which your royal birth is confirmed and you receive God's nature. But that only allows you to "SEE" the Kingdom (Jn.3:3). That is, you will be resurrected at the beginning of this Kingdom when the Lord comes. But to "ENTER" this Kingdom (Jn.3:5) you need to DO something - be obedient to Baptism. Then, even the most cursory of studies will show that entry into the kingdom of heaven is based on WORKS. In Matthew
5, YOUR righteousness must exceed that of the Pharisees
7, YOU must be OBEDIENT to the will of the Father
19, YOU must be prepared to give away wealth
22, you must have a correct garment - your works (Rev.19:7-8)
24, you must be found doing the will of the father
25, you must be faithful with your talents
25, you must BUY extra oil. It is not for free
In Galatians 5:21 and Ephesians 5:5 you will be banned from the Kingdom for WORKS
In Acts 14:22 you must suffer for the Kingdom to enter it
And so on ...

It does not take a great study of the above points to see that the malefactor did not fulfill any of these conditions. What the malefactor DID do was BELIEVE in Jesus. So his sins are put away, he is born again, he is made partaker of the divine Life, he will not go to the Lake of Fire he will be part of New Jerusalem. He will also be numbered among the faithful and wait in Paradise till resurrection.

Paradise is not a reward. It is a place of "comfort" in death. 2nd Corinthians 5:1-5 says that we groan in our bodies in this life, but that we also "groan" in death. Death is (i) an unnatural state, (ii) nakedness, and (iii) unclean. This causes torment. So Lazarus suffered and must be "comforted". The rich man suffered and is NOT comforted. Abraham's Bosom, which is called "Paradise" after our Lord visits it, is not the final state. It is a comfortable and comforting section of Hades. the Kingdom on the other hand is for LIVING men after resurrection

[Keiw1]

On 7/30/2022 at 5:57 PM, AdHoc said:

The Book of Life presents the orthodox Christian with problems. The first, is it presence at the Great White Throne judgment. According to Daniel 12:1-2, Israel will be resurrected just after the Great Tribulation. According to 1st Corinthians 15:23, 1st Thessalonians 4 and Revelation 20, the Christian is resurrected when the Lord Returns. The Great White Throne judgment is reserved for “the rest of the dead”. That is, there is not a single Israelite nor Christian at the White Throne. Why then the Book of Life at an assize where no one has eternal life?

The next problem is the judgment of (i) “ALL nations” who are alive at the coming of the Lord. In this assize the Sheep and the Goats are (ii) CONTRASTED with “the least of the Lord’s brethren”, and (iii) designated Sheep and Goats based on WORKS. This gives a threefold testimony that the Sheep and the Goats are unbelievers. (i) They are called "the Nations", (ii) they helped or persecuted Christians and Israelites and (iii) did this without knowing their connection to Jesus. They had no idea of Christians when the did what they did. But, based on what they DID, that is, WORKS, we have unbelievers , “… going away into everlasting punishment” AND unbelievers: “going into life eternal”. How can this be if salvation is by faith???

The third problem is that John 3:14-16 clearly states that eternal life is to be had ONLY by faith, not works. Yet in EVERY mention of the Book of Life, it is attached to WORKS. In Exodus 32:33 an Israelite is in or out of the Book because of SIN. In Psalm 69:28 David asks that Israelite - his brethren who persecuted him - be blotted out of the Book of the Living. In Daniel 12:1-3 the ”wise” of Daniel’s people are in the book. In Malachi 3:15 those who feared the Lord and spoke of His name were in the Book. And so it goes on in the New Testament. The Book of Life is always attached to WORKS.

What shall we say then?

The answer is found in Genesis 1:26-28 where God sets forth the duties of man. Man was (i) to be in the image and likeness of God, and (ii) man was the subdue and rule the earth and its immediate environs of sky and sea. For man to be in the image and likeness of God , man had to possess the LIFE and NATURE of God. And if man possessed the LIFE and NATURE of God, the resulting ruling would be administered according to that life. That is, a man with God’s life would be righteous. A man with God’s life would set others’ interests before his. A man with God’s life would judge justly. A man with God’s life would be a ruler, or king, just like God. The domain that he ruled over would experience the rule of eternal life - not because the subject had eternal life, but because the ruler had it.

And so, when we study all the references to eternal LIFE, we find two sets of scriptures. One set of scriptures tells of men HAVING (intrinsically) the life and nature of God, e.g. John 3:15, 5:39, 6:54, 10:28, 17:2-3,  Act 13:48, Rom.6:23, 1st Jn.5:11 etc. The other set of scriptures like Mark 10:17, 30, Lk.10:25, 18:18, 1st Tim.6:12, 17 etc., speak of ENTERING or INHERITING eternal life. The solution to the seeming anomaly is found by comparing the Lord’s words in Matthew 16:24-28 and Matthew 19:16-30.

In Matthew 16 the price for following Jesus is the death of the soul. That is, a life of such self-denial that it is bitter. The example we have is Jesus Himself. He only did the father’s will and this ended in Him face the bitter end when, sweating blood, He cried from His deepest being; “my soul is sorrowful UNTO DEATH”. The soul does not cease feeling like the body at death. It just suffers more. But the reward for losing the soul-life in this age is to gain it in untold JOY in the next age. This concept is expanded in Chapter 19.

A rich man asks how he may HAVE eternal life. Our Lord’s answer may seem strange at first. He tells the rich man how to ENTER eternal LIFE. Why did our Lord not tell the rich man how to HAVE LIFE? The reason was that he already had it. If only God is good (and the Jews know it), and the  rich man had called Jesus both "Master" and “good”. He had confessed and admitted that Jesus was God. That is what he BELIEVED! Once a man HAS eternal life, the issue at hand is now NOT HAVING LIFE, but how to subsequently ENTER or INHERIT eternal life. And what did our Lord use INTERCHANGEABLY with entering eternal life? He used the MILLENNIAL KINGDOM. In verse 17 our Lord says what is needed to ENTER LIFE, but in verse 23 he speaks of ENTERING the KINGDOM. To ENTER or INHERIT Life is the enjoyment of Christ's Kingdom ruling the earth!

To HAVE LIFE the rich man must believe and confess Who Jesus is. But to ENTER LIFE he must (i) keep the Law (WORKS) and (ii) part with his worldly fortune (WORKS). Man is made to be LIKE God and for this he must have a new birth where the divine life and nature of God are imparted to him. He is then written in the Book of Life (Phil.4:3). A person born of the Holy Spirit is ROYALTY. He will INHERIT. In order to inherit he must undergo a rigorous training. He is destined to manage God’s things. The training is brutal. The price for inheriting co-kingship with Jesus is the “soul-life”. Ason of a king is destined to rule. For this he must be trained and he must prove loyalty, and good stewardship. He may refuse this, but what are the consequences? He will be DISOWNED - not from being a son of God (because a son is son and cannot be “unbirthed”) but disowned from his INHERITANCE. That is what a “bastard” is. Every man has a father. You cannot biologically exist if you don’t have a father. A “bastard” is a son whose father DISOWNED him - NOT on his birth certificate, but in his WILL (Testament).

But before a summary, we must examine the path of an Israelite and a member of the Nations (Gentiles) into this Book. It is apparent from Revelation Chapter 20 that God keeps written records. This is not because of memory loss or shortage of capacity. It is for us who have problems with out memories. Now an Israelite will be restored to his Land (Ezek.37). Because Israel forfeits the Kingdom (Matt.21:43), the Israelite is returned to his Land as a SUBJECT of the Kingdom of Israel. But because Emmanuel will life in Jerusalem, and be arrayed with great pomp and glory, the privilege of the Israelite is to serve Emmanuel (Lk.1:74). Thus, the blessing and fame of an Israelite is whether he may serve Christ while living is safety and prosperity. For this he is written into the Book of Life (Dan.12:1-3).

The Nations (or the unbelievers) have no connection to God or eternal life. But after Armageddon they will become SUBJECTS of Christ's Kingdom. Our Lord will, together with overcoming Christians, rule the Nations with a rod of iron. The Book of Life in their case decides who is blessed to live under the benign rule of Christ's Kingdom, or who will be cast into the Lake of Fire. Isaiah 66:24 is the deciding factor. Anybody who went against God in their lifetime - those who opposed God, who struck blows at Him, His Name and His plans - will not be written into the Book of Life. the Book of Life decides which of the unbeliever gets to live under Christ's rule and who gets to the Lake of Fire. And so is the Promise and Covenant made with Abraham fulfilled. All Families (not all men) will be blessed by a Seed coming fro Abraham. Example; aborted babies, infants who die at birth and children have no works against God. They will be written into the Book of Life and enjoy Christ's blessed rule though they do NOT have eternal life.

The Book of LIFE Pertaining to the Christian
And so it is that a Christian is written in the Book of Life but must cooperate with the rigorous training by denying himself and doing God’s will. If he doesn’t, and he does not respond to God’s chastisement, he will forfeit the Kingdom and be removed from Christ’s presence for the Millennium. The Book of Life is not full of those who HAVE LIFE. It is full of those Christians who are entitled to enter the Kingdom as co-kings with Christ. In Matthew 20:1-4, in the context of the Kingdom (v.1), our Lord Jesus said that not many Christians will make it (v.14). This is doubly apparent when we see the seven letters to the seven Churches. Apostasy is rife in the Church and only “OVERCOMERS” will reign. The sobering fact is, many Christians will be blotted out of the Book of Life.

The Book of LIFE Pertaining to Israel.
Returning to Daniel 12:1-3, we see the same thing, except that the REWARD is different. The Jew who is alive during the last years of this age will be preserved during the Great Tribulation (v.1). All circumcised Israelites who ever lived will be returned to their Land (Ezekiel 37). But they forfeit the Kingdom (Matt.21:43). So they return to Canaan as SUBJECTS - some to fame and some to disgrace. The highest award will be that the approved Israelite will be allowed to “serve” the King and His kingdom (Lk.1:74). The rulers of Restored Israel will be (i) Christ - King of the Jews, (ii) David (Jer.30:9), and (iii) the Twelve Apostles (Matt.19:28) - all of them Christians.

The Book of LIFE Pertaining to the Nations
At both judgments, that at the end of the Great Tribulation (Matt.25:31-46), and that in Revelation 20, the Nations are judged on their works. Isaiah 66:24 decides who goes to the Lake of Fire. Christ, in sole possession of every man's history, will judge. Only He knows all things and only He gets to judge. Those whose works are judged to have attacked God in any way, will go to the Lake of Fire. Those who led a normal life and did not attack God or His plans in any way, are written into the Book of Life. They enter the kingdom as SUBJECTS. They are ruled by the Overcoming Christians (Lk.19:17-19) with a rod of iron. Those not transcribed into the Book of Life go to the Lake of Fire. The Book of Life is NOT that they had LIFE, but that they may ENJOY and be blessed by the benign and equitous rule of Christ and His co-kings.

 

 

One thing is for sure. No mortal has the right to assure another-You are saved. They do not know. They are the blind guides who do it-these 2Cor 11:12-15--assuredly the ones asking for a tithe.

1) he cannot read anothers true heart

2) he has no clue who can endure until their end, living now in this satan ruled system doing Jesus' Fathers will( Matt 7:21-Matt 24: 13

3) he has NEVER seen a single name written in Gods book of life

I say run from those false teachers as fast as you can.

[AdHoc]

7 hours ago, Keiw1 said:

 

One thing is for sure. No mortal has the right to assure another-You are saved. They do not know. They are the blind guides who do it-these 2Cor 11:12-15--assuredly the ones asking for a tithe.

1) he cannot read anothers true heart

2) he has no clue who can endure until their end, living now in this satan ruled system doing Jesus' Fathers will( Matt 7:21-Matt 24: 13

3) he has NEVER seen a single name written in Gods book of life

I say run from those false teachers as fast as you can.

Hi, and thanks for the input. I agree. Sometimes it is wise to walk away from obvious false teachers. But sometimes we must stand our ground and contend. Jude puts it nicely in verses 3-4

3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. 4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ

Go well bro.

[B-B]

3857. paradeisos ►

Strong's Concordance paradeisos: a park, a garden, a paradise Original Word: παράδεισος, ου, ὁ Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine Transliteration: paradeisos Phonetic Spelling: (par-ad'-i-sos) Definition: a park, a garden, a paradise Usage: Paradise. HELPS Word-studies 3857 parádeisos – an ancient Persian word meaning "enclosure, garden, park." NAS Exhaustive Concordance Word Origin of Pers. origin (enclosure) Definition a park, a garden, a paradise NASB Translation Paradise (3).   Thayer's Greek Lexicon STRONGS NT 3857: παράδεισος παράδεισος, παραδείσου, ὁ (thought by most to be of Persian orion, by others of Armenian, cf. Gesenius, Thesaurus, ii., p. 1124; (B. D., under the word; especially Fried. Delitzsch, We lag das Paradies? Leipzig 1881, pp. 95-97; cf. Max Müller, Selected Essays, i., 129f)), 1. among the Persians a grand enclosure or preserve, hunting-ground, park, shady and well-watered, in which wild animals were kept for the hunt; it was enclosed by walls and furnished with towers for the hunters: Xenophon, Cyril 1, 3, 14; (1, 4, 5); 8, 1, 38; oec. 4, 13 and 14; anab. 1, 2, 7, 9; Theophrastus, h. pl. 5, 8, 1; Diodorus 16, 41; 14, 80; Pint. Artax. 25, cf. Curt; 8, 1, 11. 2. universally, a garden, pleasure-ground; grove, park: Lucian, v. h. 2, 23; Aelian v. h. 1, 33; Josephus, Antiquities 7, 14, 4; 8, 7, 3; 9, 10, 4; 10, 3, 2 and 11, 1; b. j. 6, 1, 1; (c. Apion. 1, 19, 9 (where cf. Müller)); Susanna 4, 7, 15, etc.; Sir. 24:30; and so it passed into the Hebrew language, פַּרְדֵּס, Nehemiah 2:8; Ecclesiastes 2:5; Song of Solomon 4:13; besides in the Sept. mostly for גַּן; thus, for that delightful region, 'the garden of Eden,' in which our first parents dwelt before the fall: Genesis 2:8ff; 3:1ff. 3. that part of Hades which was thought by the later Jews to be the abode of the souls of the pious until the resurrection: Luke 23:43, cf. 16:23f. But some (e. g. Dillmann (as below, p. 379)) understand that passage of the heavenly paradise. 4. an upper region in the heavens: 2 Corinthians 12:4 (where some maintain, others deny, that the term is equivalent to ὁ τρίτος οὐρανός in 2 Corinthians 12:2); with the addition of τοῦ Θεοῦ, genitive of possessor, the abode of God and heavenly beings, to which true Christians will be taken after death, Revelation 2:7 (cf. Genesis 13:10; Ezekiel 28:13; Ezekiel 31:8). According to the opinion of many of the church Fathers, the paradise in which our first parents dwelt before the fall still exists, neither on earth nor in the heavens, but above and beyond the world; cf. Thilo, Cod. apocr. Nov. Test., on Evang. Nicod. c. xxv., p. 748ff; and Bleek thinks that the word ought to be taken in this sense in Revelation 2:7. Cf. Dillmann under the word Paradies in Schenkel iv. 377ff; also Hilgenfeld, Die Clement. Recogn. und Hom., p. 87f; Klöpper on 2 Corinthians 12:2-4, p. 507ff ((Göttingen, 1869). See also B. D., under the word; McClintock and Strong's Cyclopaedia, under the word; Hamburger, Real-Encyclopädie, Abtheil. ii, under the word.) Strong's Exhaustive Concordance paradise. Of Oriental origin (compare pardec); a park, i.e. (specially), an Eden (place of future happiness, "paradise") -- paradise. see HEBREW pardec Forms and Transliterations παράδεισοι παραδεισον παράδεισον παράδεισος παραδείσου παραδείσους παραδεισω παραδείσω παραδείσῳ paradeiso paradeisō paradeísoi paradeísōi paradeison parádeison Links Interlinear Greek • Interlinear Hebrew • Strong's Numbers • Englishman's Greek Concordance • Englishman's Hebrew Concordance • Parallel Texts Englishman's Concordance Luke 23:43 N-DMS GRK: ἐν τῷ παραδείσῳ NAS: to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise. KJV: me in paradise. INT: in Paradise 2 Corinthians 12:4 N-AMS GRK: εἰς τὸν παράδεισον καὶ ἤκουσεν NAS: was caught up into Paradise and heard KJV: into paradise, and INT: to Paradise and heard Revelation 2:7 N-DMS GRK: ἐν τῷ παραδείσῳ τοῦ θεοῦ NAS: which is in the Paradise of God.' KJV: in the midst of the paradise of God. INT: in the paradise of God ----------------------------- Thanks for sharing your thoughts @AdHoc 😊 I did a quick search for the meaning of the word Paradise (see above).  could it be that Jesus did not specifically use those specific words - that the forgiven criminal would be allowed to enter His future Kingdom - as it was not going to be his immediate destination upon death?  Where does it indicate in Scripture that this forgiven criminal will not return, (from Paradise), with the Lord, when He establishes His Kingdom? Thanks for your time.

[AdHoc]

6 hours ago, B-B said:

3. that part of Hades which was thought by the later Jews to be the abode of the souls of the pious until the resurrection: Luke 23:43, cf. 16:23f. But some (e. g. Dillmann (as below, p. 379)) understand that passage of the heavenly paradise.

That is the right way to research a matter. Get every authority's opinion and then be a good Berean and see if the Word supports what they say (Act.17:11). Let's see ...
-  The Law of  Moses forbade leaving a corps on a tree after sunset (Lev.21:22-23)
-  Ephesians 4:8-9 says our Lord FIRST DESCENDED after death
-  Matthew 12:40 says that Jesus descended to the heart of the earth
-  In Matthew 12:40 Jona did not go anywhere during these three days
-  After resurrection Jesus told Mary that He had not YET ascended to His Father

So, without any punctuation, it is true that Jesus met with the malefactor in Hades in the heart of the earth THAT SAME DAY (Lk.23:43) and stayed there for three days.

There is not a single scripture that alludes to, rumors or confirms that Paradise was moved.

-  2nd Corinthians 11:2-4 is rendered that Paul was "caught UP to Paradise", but ...
-  The Greek word "harpazo" means "caught AWAY" as in Acts 8:39. The Greek indicates movement but NOT direction.
-  Seeing as the dead RISE, Paradise must remain UNDER the earth. If the dead are in heaven at any stage they must DESCEND in resurrection
-  Acts 2:27-34 proves this in that David is still in Hades and NOT RISEN to heaven 50 days after Christ's resurrection and 10 days after His ascension to the right hand of the Father's throne
-  There is not a single scripture indicating that Paradise has moved from Hades
-  Our Lord Jesus has the keys to Hades to release dead Christians (Matt.16:18, Rev.1:18)

If you were a detective presenting your findings to the District Attorney, and you were honest, then Paradise is a department of Hades - under the earth - and is still there now.

6 hours ago, B-B said:

Where does it indicate in Scripture that this forgiven criminal will not return, (from Paradise), with the Lord, when He establishes His Kingdom?

Again, you are the judge. After all the entry requirements that the New Testament sets forth for entry into the Kingdom of God, did the malefactor fulfill them? The malefactor answered for himself. He was on the cross GUILTY OF DEATH (Lk 23:41 - 41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.). Remember, a Christian enters the Kingdom by WORKS!

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that DOETH the will of my Father which is in heaven. (Matt.7:21)