"without complaining" > in Philippians 2:13-16

[Willa]

 

On 9/5/2022 at 11:37 AM, DPMartin said:

And I see no reference to clothed in Jesus in scripture.

 Gal 3:27. NKJV  For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

 Rom 13:14. But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts.

Gal 3:27  AMP For as many [of you] as were baptized into Christ [into a spiritual union and communion with Christ, the Anointed One, the Messiah] have put on (clothed yourselves with) Christ.

G1746  (Thayer)  ἐνδύω. enduō  Thayer Definition: 1) to sink into (clothing), put on, clothe one’s self

 

  OP.    We need to be clothed with Christ, and "without complaining".

I needed the reminder, thank you.   I was once a complainer till I studied the children of Israel in the wilderness.  No, I don't wan't another lap in the desert.  I will instead give thanks and praise my Lord and my God because He is worthy.  He does all things well and can make all things work together for good and for His glory.

[DPMartin]

9 hours ago, Willa said:

 

 Gal 3:27. NKJV  For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

 Rom 13:14. But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts.

Gal 3:27  AMP For as many [of you] as were baptized into Christ [into a spiritual union and communion with Christ, the Anointed One, the Messiah] have put on (clothed yourselves with) Christ.

G1746  (Thayer)  ἐνδύω. enduō  Thayer Definition: 1) to sink into (clothing), put on, clothe one’s self

 

  OP.    We need to be clothed with Christ, and "without complaining".

I needed the reminder, thank you.   I was once a complainer till I studied the children of Israel in the wilderness.  No, I don't wan't another lap in the desert.  I will instead give thanks and praise my Lord and my God because He is worthy.  He does all things well and can make all things work together for good and for His glory.

The text “cloth” and its variances is used by British translators (mind you their language) approx. 68 times in the NT. how come they who know their own language didn’t use it where you want it to be?

Also, the AMP is what a west cost American Frances Siewert put into parentheses, her notion of what she thought the translators should have done, with a word-to-word approach which would have disregard for use of the words in the context they are translated from. Which hinders the intended meaning of the original writers. It amazes me how one individual thinks themselves more expert than a team of translators that translate for a living, and the work they did (KJV) has stood public scrutiny for over 400 years. Americans hack the meaning of the English language to the point dictionaries have to update every year now, and English isn’t an American language, its only used by Americans.

[Willa]

13 hours ago, Willa said:

 Gal 3:27. NKJV  For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

 Rom 13:14. But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts.

Gal 3:27  AMP For as many [of you] as were baptized into Christ [into a spiritual union and communion with Christ, the Anointed One, the Messiah] have put on (clothed yourselves with) Christ.

G1746  (Thayer)  ἐνδύω. enduō  Thayer Definition: 1) to sink into (clothing), put on, clothe one’s self

The Analytical-Literal Translation of the New Testament Third Edition by Gary E. Zeolla, a Greek man who translated Kione Greek into English.  He used the second edition of the Byzantine Majority Text, to which the translators of the 1500s and 16oos did not have access.  Their (Erasmus, Tyndall, Coverdale) Majority texts were incomplete, lacking The Revelation, and were not even the best Majority (Greek Orthodox) texts at the time.  Tyndall didn't complete translating the Hebrew O.T.  

Gal 3:20. ALT3. For as many as were baptized [or immersed] into Christ put on [or, clothed themselves with] Christ. 

Rom 13:14. ALT3. But put on [or, clothe yourself with] the Lord Jesus Christ, and stop making provision for the flesh, for [its] lusts [or, desires].

 

4 hours ago, DPMartin said:

Also, the AMP is what a west cost American Frances Siewert put into parentheses, her notion of what she thought the translators should have done, with a word-to-word approach which would have disregard for use of the words in the context they are translated from. Which hinders the intended meaning of the original writers.

Zeolla put into brackets alternative translations for words and phrases as well as the figurative meanings.   He is not an American translator nor is he a team.  However, he is not disregarding the context.  Some teams are so liberal in their approach they produce "Good News for Modern Man" which I consider a paraphrase.    Literal translations are much safer.

 Amplified is the first New Testament I read and could understand back in 1958, but Zeolla somewhat uses the same style.  I am dyslexic and could never grasp the meaning of KJV due to its archaic language which much of has changed in meaning and usage over the centuries.   I prefer Zeolla's literal approach as well as his text.  I hope you don't find it so offensive as you do AMP; it does still day what you don't want it to say.   I use NKJV, ESV and Zeolla most often now and hardly touch KJV because I still stumble through it and find it hard to comprehend. Coupled with that are word like "conversation" which has little to do with words and much to do with manner, life style or the way a person conducts himself.  I stumble over thees and thous as well.  You are welcome to it.  

[Michael37]

10 hours ago, DPMartin said:

The text “cloth” and its variances is used by British translators (mind you their language) approx. 68 times in the NT. how come they who know their own language didn’t use it where you want it to be?

Also, the AMP is what a west cost American Frances Siewert put into parentheses, her notion of what she thought the translators should have done, with a word-to-word approach which would have disregard for use of the words in the context they are translated from. Which hinders the intended meaning of the original writers. It amazes me how one individual thinks themselves more expert than a team of translators that translate for a living, and the work they did (KJV) has stood public scrutiny for over 400 years. Americans hack the meaning of the English language to the point dictionaries have to update every year now, and English isn’t an American language, its only used by Americans.

Some complain about interpretations of Hebrew and Greek words, but others see through the opinions that lead to them. 

[com7fy8]

On 9/6/2022 at 6:37 PM, Michael37 said:

People felt they had to be available to leadership 24/7, and were overwhelmed by unrealistic expectations.

Relationships outside of Arise were to be "limited to 20 percent" of a person's life.

Obviously the Scriptural exhortation not to complain or dispute is to be applied when the Will of God is being followed, not when the will of man or Satan is being imposed. 

So, ones of them were abused, by being pushed to work even while injured. And it seems ones lorded themselves over the interns, by controlling their private relating time and emotionally wasting them.

But Jesus clearly says the Gentiles lord it over their people, and this will not be so among Christ's leaders > Matthew 20:25-28.

And He is very clear how His sheep hear His voice and will flee from a false leader > John 10:1-30.

So, I would say a basic thing of discipling people is to make sure they know God expects them to be guided by Jesus so they do not fool themselves into trusting people who are not Jesus Christ's approved leaders. And if God is guiding us, He does not have us submitting to abusive people who are not qualified to train us in ministry!! 

So, when I am told people have gotten all the way into ministerial training and still they are not submitting to how Jesus takes care of us with "rest for your souls" (in Matthew 11:28-30), and if instead they go along with abusive people . . . 

Jesus Christ personally guides His sheep and cares for us in His rest for our souls. Do even whole churches and ministerial programs and denominational seminaries leave this out?

I do not need to blame anyone else, then: if I discover that I have gotten involved with a wrong leader or in a wrong relationship, I am accountable to Jesus about if He really guided me into that situation. And if He did not bring me there, I need to first complain about how I could so fool my own self and not even know it.

Jesus guarantees that if we trust and obey and learn from Jesus, "you will find rest for your souls." (in Matthew 11:29)

So, Jesus is not the one who pressures and wastes and stresses and burns out people. While we stay with Jesus and what He really has us doing, we can have His sweetly soothing and kind rest for our souls.

So, any time we start to get deeply messed up and wasted and in nasty and cruel stuff in us . . . right away, we need to stop and trust God to correct us and get us with Him in His peace, then discover what He has us doing with Him > God's peace is almighty so that while we obey God in this peace > "the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus." This guarantee of God is in Philippians 4:6-7.

In time of prayer, then, get with God in the ruling of this peace, in order that we are prepared to stay with God all through the day, as His word commands us to do >

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

And any time, then, when wrong people succeed in hurting or misguiding me, start by complaining about however I have been my real main problem 

Edited September 9, 2022 by com7fy8

[DPMartin]

12 hours ago, Michael37 said:

Some complain about interpretations of Hebrew and Greek words, but others see through the opinions that lead to them. 

really?

Are you saying pointing out inaccuracy is complaining when Eve was deceived easily because she really didn’t know exactly what God said about the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Are you saying that’s not important? If Adam would have pointed out the error in what she thought or if she would have asked for exactlly what the Lord said, maybe we wouldn’t be having these conversations and we wouldn't be born into sin when we come into the world. 

Edited September 9, 2022 by DPMartin

[DPMartin]

18 hours ago, Willa said:

The Analytical-Literal Translation of the New Testament Third Edition by Gary E. Zeolla, a Greek man who translated Kione Greek into English.  He used the second edition of the Byzantine Majority Text, to which the translators of the 1500s and 16oos did not have access.  Their (Erasmus, Tyndall, Coverdale) Majority texts were incomplete, lacking The Revelation, and were not even the best Majority (Greek Orthodox) texts at the time.  Tyndall didn't complete translating the Hebrew O.T.  

Gal 3:20. ALT3. For as many as were baptized [or immersed] into Christ put on [or, clothed themselves with] Christ. 

Rom 13:14. ALT3. But put on [or, clothe yourself with] the Lord Jesus Christ, and stop making provision for the flesh, for [its] lusts [or, desires].

 

Zeolla put into brackets alternative translations for words and phrases as well as the figurative meanings.   He is not an American translator nor is he a team.  However, he is not disregarding the context.  Some teams are so liberal in their approach they produce "Good News for Modern Man" which I consider a paraphrase.    Literal translations are much safer.

 Amplified is the first New Testament I read and could understand back in 1958, but Zeolla somewhat uses the same style.  I am dyslexic and could never grasp the meaning of KJV due to its archaic language which much of has changed in meaning and usage over the centuries.   I prefer Zeolla's literal approach as well as his text.  I hope you don't find it so offensive as you do AMP; it does still day what you don't want it to say.   I use NKJV, ESV and Zeolla most often now and hardly touch KJV because I still stumble through it and find it hard to comprehend. Coupled with that are word like "conversation" which has little to do with words and much to do with manner, life style or the way a person conducts himself.  I stumble over thees and thous as well.  You are welcome to it.  

 

Edited September 9, 2022 by DPMartin

[Michael37]

6 hours ago, DPMartin said:

really?

Are you saying pointing out inaccuracy is complaining when Eve was deceived easily because she really didn’t know exactly what God said about the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Are you saying that’s not important? If Adam would have pointed out the error in what she thought or if she would have asked for exactlly what the Lord said, maybe we wouldn’t be having these conversations and we wouldn't be born into sin when we come into the world. 

The above thesis is academic. The fact is Adam was deceived by Eve who was deceived by Satan speaking through the serpent. To speculate on an alternative outcome is not to prove all complaints about alternative wordings in translations from Hebrew and Greek are justified.

Often the so-called inaccuracies are a matter of opinion (Gr. dogma).

[DPMartin]

On 9/9/2022 at 2:36 PM, Michael37 said:

The above thesis is academic. The fact is Adam was deceived by Eve who was deceived by Satan speaking through the serpent. To speculate on an alternative outcome is not to prove all complaints about alternative wordings in translations from Hebrew and Greek are justified.

Often the so-called inaccuracies are a matter of opinion (Gr. dogma).

thesis? what thesis?

According to Paul Adam was not deceived:

1Ti 2:14  And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 

 

Gen 3:17  And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; 

 

hence your opinion meaneth nothing. 

It’s a fact that Paul knows much more about the Torah then you or your Greek and Hebrew lexicons, and pointing out your hacks of the scripture isn't a complaint, its just a stating of the facts of the hack job you are doing in these postings.

In the kingdom of God, or Heaven if you prefer, there are no opinions on God’s Word other than God’s.