Christians and War (Kill 'em All)

[yomotalking]

No one has given up, we just got tired of being blown up.

t.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep.

Me too.

[Qun Mang]

Most of us accept that he is a true believer. Christians who have had personal contact with him have confirmed this fact. Given this fact, those charges you are making against him are highly improbable. Yes he can still sin, but you make him out to be some sort of antichrist (no, not the Antichrist- the Bible makes a distinction). His competency can be and has been argued at times but he is most definitely not the malicious character you seem to think he is.

[Big Steve]

Deacon - By saying Bush flat out lied about the WMD situation, you make it sound like he just sat around one day and thought all these things up, and purposely presented the nation with false information, in order to start this war.

I don't argue the fact that no WMDs were ever found. I can't give you one instance where a claim he made turned out to be in fact true. But my point is, he did not make this stuff up. He was acting on intelligence he was given by multiple sources, our own and other countries, who had agents in Iraq and were reporting this information back. Everyone in the world believed he had them still. Why? Because it is a known fact he had them before.

Let me tell you how I know they were used against my unit. When our ground forces entered into Kuwait, I was part of a task force that was supposed to be wiped out trying to hold open a position in the vast mine fields that were layed out by the Iraqi forces. When we weren't, we were redirected to Kuwait City. As we fought our way north( I won't go into these other situations here, another time), the decision was made to cross through the burning oil fields to get there. You can't imagine how absolutely black it was in the middle of these. The vehicles had to stop to get oriented before we could keep moving. We stopped in a large open area, that, as we found out later, had been pre-targeted by Iraqi artillery forces. All of us had off-loaded from the vehicle and set up a defensive perimeter until we moved out again. We also had with us a British "fox" vehicle, whose sole purpose it to detect chemical weapons. Well not long after we stopped we started receiving incoming artillery rounds. The first one hit and basically went "poof". We thought it was a dud. More started coming in with the same effect. By the third one, it came over our radios that these were all chemical shells they were firing, as detected by the "fox" vehicles with us. We were already in MOPP suits, so we put our gas masks on and held position. We called in for close air support to take out the Iraqi artillery, which they did. We vacated the area and unmasked some 3-4 miles later.

This was later confirmed that it was indeed a chemical weapons attack. It was on a small enough scale that it would not be made public, or acknowledged in public, because the stated response to a chemical weapons attack was to be nuclear, and Bush Sr. did not want to go that route. After the war, probably about 2 years, I was interviewed at a VA hospital, and had to give a written, sworn statement of the incident, and be willing to testify before a Congressional hearing if it came to it, about what happened, due to so many men getting sick. But what they don't want to come out, never will. Many incidents are never going to come out, but they happened.

That got rather long, sorry, but I just want you to know, I do know firsthand of WMD in Iraq. Where they went, I have no idea, but they were there.

I will respond to more of your post later, I have to run again to pick up my daughter. One point I will pick up on again later though, is Saddam was still a threat because he never disarmed after the 1991 Gulf War. That is common knowledge. Much of them were destroyed, but many Republican Guard units were still intact. He never followed the UN mandates given to him.

More later.

[Big Steve]

ok a little more time before I start cooking supper.

Bush Sr. never green lighted Iraq to invade Kuwait in 1990. The U.S. Ambassador was asked what the position of the U.S. was on the border dispute between Iraq and Kuwait. The repsonse was that the U.S. had no position and the dispute should be worked out among themselves.

Just a pet peave of mine, nothing personal, but I don't like it when I hear the phrase "we walked into Iraq", or how easy it was. I hear that about the first Gulf War too, because ground combat only lasted 4 days. Let me tell you, it is not a cakewalk to see people going down around you, having bullets and shrapnel flying all over. The first time you experience it, you are scared to death, I don't care what anyone tells you, you are. You do get used to it, believe it or not, and the fear subsides. But you never forget those sounds and smells. And when you are close enough to an enemy combatant to lock eyes with them for a split-second, well you don't forget that either. To say it is easy, or a "walk-through", though, it's really not, at least not to the ones doing the walking.

No one, Christians or otherwise, that I knew and was serving with, was eager to go to war. That is not the case at all. You train to fight, so you don't ever have to. But when the time comes, you have to be ready. And, yes, you can still pray for your enemy. You don't have to hate who you are fighting. Although I must say, we found so many evidences of crimes and atrocities committed against the Kuwaiti people, it was hard to believe the Iraqi army had any morals whatsoever. They raped and killed many women once they had control of Kuwait City. They beat many others. Just because they could. There was a great lack of dicipline among the Iraq army, all except the Republican Guard. They were highly trained and skilled fighters.

Back to the current war. These terrorists will stop at nothing. If you do not believe they are preparing for another large-scale attack against us, you are fooling yourself. On the smaller scale, it is all but impossible to fight against the guerilla warfare tactics being used on our troops over there. Right now, we are basically sparring with them. They attack us, we attack them. I'm of the opinion, you fight to win. We need to go for a knockout, and be done with it. It would be visually much more drastic, but would actually end the situation much quicker.

I do believe God gave governments the authority and responsibility to wage war when necessary. It was necessary.

[Giaour]

BAGHDAD, Iraq

[Giaour]

OPERATION: IRAQI FREEDOM

Saddam's WMD

have been found

New evidence unveils chemical, biological, nuclear, ballistic arms

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted: April 26, 2004

1:36 p.m. Eastern

Editor's note: WorldNetDaily is pleased to have a content-sharing agreement with Insight magazine, the bold Washington publication not afraid to ruffle establishment feathers. Subscribe to Insight at WorldNetDaily's online store and save 71 percent off the cover price.

By Kenneth R. Timmerman

[ted]

Steve,

Bless you, Brother. I feel your pain, as I have been many places.

I'll leave it at that.......

The point here is, it doesn't matter what your testimony is or what the facts are: some people will never listen, and others will. You have much to share, but there are times when it falls on deaf ears.

Soon, some of these people will respond to what you wrote here, but they will have totally missed the point, or will ignore it flat out.

I, and many here, including yourself, have tried to explain this stuff over and over, but I guess that the subject is worse than nuclear science- they just don't get it, or want to, anyway.

The truth is, no argument or testimony of the truth is going to sway some of these people. They have their mindset, and disregard anything that is contrary to their position.

They are right, because they say so, and that's that.

So, my advice is to simply state your points, and let them try to pick them apart. Once your points are made, it's no use trying to hammer it into their heads. All you end up doing is hitting your own thumb with the hammer.

Some people just don't care about what there is to hear on the subject. All they want to do is scream out their little talking points and argue until the cows come home. They put their arguments out in question form to suck us in to the conversations, but all they are doing is trying to get you to argue about it. All it is to them is a way to make their little points, however ill-informed they may be.

Grab a coke, make some popcorn, and enjoy the life that the Lord has Blessed you with.

You have earned it.

t.

[RustyAngeL]

I've just been reading some of the posts here and I noticed something rather alarming. Since when do Christians support war? Is there a book in the Bible that I missed? I seem to remember Jesus saying something about loving everyone including your enemies. I know that that's not easy but I didn't realize that so many Christians had given up trying.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am a Christian and I support the war. I am also a United States Marine. Are you going to tell me that I cannot be a Christian and be in the military? I heard that before. We can love people, we just don't have to like them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you Constant...I suppose we should have gone over to the enemy and handed out flowers after they brought down the Twin Towers and flew a plane into the Pentagon and then in the field in Penn. I'm so sick of hearing this. Don't you realize that freedom is never free and the it will always come at a price. We have a military for a reason. I would be very interested in what you would have done with the people that killed 3000 Americans on Sept 11th. I thank God for all of our military past, which includes my grandfather, my father and my husband and many wonderful friends, and present like Constant and her Marine husband Ryan. Just who do you think protects you? I"m going to ask you another question. Where you rather fight the enemy, on their turf our here in our country because you can bet your life, if we didn't meet them and fight them over where they are we would over run here in America. Grow up. I really thought the era of flower children had died out. Guess not. Oorah!!!!!!

[nebula]

BigSteve - Thank-you for sharing!

Ted - Yup! You were right.

[JohnS]

Thanks Steve, Thanks Ted

One day we will know the truth about all the theories, but when that time comes I'm not going to be thinking about Saddam, I'm going to be worshipping at Jesus' feet. We have a job to do in the meantime. Things are going to get a lot worse before God wipes away every tear.

The king's heart is in the hand of the Lord, Like the rivers of water; He turns it wherever He wishes. Proverbs 21:1