Define Hebrew Roots

[Jedi4Yahweh]

It would be nice to see a normal conversation regarding Hebrew Roots that sparks conversation rather then lengthy articles that no one intends to read through.

Questions:

1) Define Hebrew Roots and what makes it different from mainstream Christianity?

2) What are the main tenants of HR teachings and beliefs?

3) Is HR a mixture of Judaism and Christianity or something entirely different?

4) How did you get involved with HR?

NOTE: These question are for those who have been involved with HR or similar Messianic movement.  Please use your own words and scriptures and not some copy/paste job from some website. 

Shalom,

Jedi

 

 

 

 

Edited September 19, 2022 by Jedi4Yahweh

[Jedi4Yahweh]

1) Define Hebrew Roots and what makes it different from mainstream Christianity?

Hebrew Roots is an attempt to get us back to the roots of 1st Century Christianity that obeys Jesus and God's Commandments.  True Christianity is birthed and rooted in the Hebrew faith not Rome.

IMO mainstream Christianity has been corrupted by Roman Catholic teachings down through the ages.  For instance all the Feast of God (Passover, Pentecost, Tabernacles, Atonement, Trumpets) have been replaced by Catholic Pagan holidays such as Christmas, Easter, Halloween, etc..  Corrupt teachings such as the Commandants are only for Jews, We don't have to obey Jesus only Paul applies to us, Dispensationalism, 3 persons = 1 God, God's commandments are abolished, etc..

The key differences between HR and mainstream Christianity are listed under question 2.

2) What are the main tenants of HR teachings and beliefs?  

• Yahshua is Messiah and through him we have eternal redemption though faith and obedience in him the Word of God 
• The Commandments of God are still required for us just as Yahshua taught us to keep them; obedience is not optional
• Keeping the Sabbath Holy (7th Day) just as Jesus and all the other Apostles did.
• Keeping the Feast of God are still vitally important just as Jesus and Paul kept the Feast; obviously we keep the feast a little different under the New Covenant being that Yahshua is our sacrificial lamb and our eternal high priest.
• We keep the dietary laws of eating only biblically clean foods. 

3) Is HR a mixture of Judaism and Christianity or something entirely different?

HR is Christianity but in a more pure sense as those of the 1st Century Jewish/Christian church but without all the Roman Catholic Paganism and doctrines of men attached.  It resembles Judaism in some ways in the that we believe in keeping the commandments and feast of God but different because we believe and follow the teachings of Messiah Yahshua (Jesus) which taught us to keep the Torah but not the man-made Jewish traditions and rules of the Talmud or Mishnah that rabbinical Judaism follow.  Jesus did not come to bring a new religion to Israel and the world but a new covenant.

4) How did you get involved with HR?

It started with me becoming frustrated with what I was seeing going on in mainstream churches and I left mainstream hungry for true worship and went on a long spiritual journey praying for God to lead me to his people that worship him in spirit and in truth and not in man-made hypocrisy and traditions of men that I see in modern churches.  This led me to a group of people who believe in keeping the commandments and faith in Jesus.

Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. - Rev 14:12 KJV

I must say I don't agree with every HR group and their various teachings just like don't agree with all dominations.  HR is more a of movement and not a denomination. HR groups come in a verity fashions and flavors just like mainstream modern Christianity, but most follow the main tenants of what I mentioned above.

Edited September 20, 2022 by Jedi4Yahweh

[WilliamL]

On 9/18/2022 at 8:13 PM, Jedi4Yahweh said:

we believe in keeping the commandments and feast of God but different because we believe and follow the teachings of Messiah Yahshua (Jesus) which taught us to keep the Torah

The problem with this presumption is that Jesus handpicked Paul, who told us we (or at the least, non-Hebraic-by-race believers in Christ) are no longer are under the statutes and ordinances of the Torah. And Paul claimed he was taught his Gospel "through the revelation of Jesus Christ." Gal. 1:12

Which is why most HR proponents I know reject the teachings of Paul in whole or part.

The crux of this issue is whether or not the New Covenant stands distinct from the Law of Moses. And so many HR people reject the term "New Covenant," contending that the term really should be "Renewed Covenant." But this translation is a clear corruption of both the Hebrew and Greek texts for the word 'new.'

So how do you address these issues?

[Jedi4Yahweh]

On 10/2/2022 at 3:05 PM, WilliamL said:

The problem with this presumption is that Jesus handpicked Paul, who told us we (or at the least, non-Hebraic-by-race believers in Christ) are no longer are under the statutes and ordinances of the Torah. And Paul claimed he was taught his Gospel "through the revelation of Jesus Christ." Gal. 1:12

Which is why most HR proponents I know reject the teachings of Paul in whole or part.

The crux of this issue is whether or not the New Covenant stands distinct from the Law of Moses. And so many HR people reject the term "New Covenant," contending that the term really should be "Renewed Covenant." But this translation is a clear corruption of both the Hebrew and Greek texts for the word 'new.'

So how do you address these issues?

I don't want to turn this into a debate.

Jesus to include all his chosen apostles taught us to keep the moral law of God which is God's commandments.  It does seem confusing comparing Paul's writing with the rest of scriptures.  Even Peter said that Paul writings were confusing and people would use his writing for their own destruction and be carried away into the error of lawlessness.  Error of lawlessness refers to those who reject the Law of God.

Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability. - 2Pe 3:14-17 

There is a small few within the HR movement that have rejected Paul as a true apostle, but most (majority) maintain Paul is an apostle that has been taken out of context and twisted which many people use to justify their lawless lifestyle, just a Peter warned us.  I maintain the latter.   There was a lot of conflict in the first century church with Paul and there was even contention between the Apostles and Paul that you can read about in Paul's own writings.  

We must interpret scriptures in light of the Law and Prophets and this was considered the Word of God.  Jesus is the Word of God (Law and Prophets) and he is not going to contradict himself.  All the NT writing of Jesus and his chosen Apostles are based on the Law and the Prophets. You will not one find instance of his Peter, John, James, Jude, or Jesus teach the Law has been done away it, but quite contrary. 

[tim_from_pa]

On 9/18/2022 at 10:13 PM, Jedi4Yahweh said:

1) Define Hebrew Roots and what makes it different from mainstream Christianity?

Hebrew Roots is an attempt to get us back to the roots of 1st Century Christianity that obeys Jesus and God's Commandments.  True Christianity is birthed and rooted in the Hebrew faith not Rome.

IMO mainstream Christianity has been corrupted by Roman Catholic teachings down through the ages.  For instance all the Feast of God (Passover, Pentecost, Tabernacles, Atonement, Trumpets) have been replaced by Catholic Pagan holidays such as Christmas, Easter, Halloween, etc..  Corrupt teachings such as the Commandants are only for Jews, We don't have to obey Jesus only Paul applies to us, Dispensationalism, 3 persons = 1 God, God's commandments are abolished, etc..

The key differences between HR and mainstream Christianity are listed under question 2.

2) What are the main tenants of HR teachings and beliefs?  

• Yahshua is Messiah and through him we have eternal redemption though faith and obedience in him the Word of God 
• The Commandments of God are still required for us just as Yahshua taught us to keep them; obedience is not optional
• Keeping the Sabbath Holy (7th Day) just as Jesus and all the other Apostles did.
• Keeping the Feast of God are still vitally important just as Jesus and Paul kept the Feast; obviously we keep the feast a little different under the New Covenant being that Yahshua is our sacrificial lamb and our eternal high priest.
• We keep the dietary laws of eating only biblically clean foods. 

3) Is HR a mixture of Judaism and Christianity or something entirely different?

HR is Christianity but in a more pure sense as those of the 1st Century Jewish/Christian church but without all the Roman Catholic Paganism and doctrines of men attached.  It resembles Judaism in some ways in the that we believe in keeping the commandments and feast of God but different because we believe and follow the teachings of Messiah Yahshua (Jesus) which taught us to keep the Torah but not the man-made Jewish traditions and rules of the Talmud or Mishnah that rabbinical Judaism follow.  Jesus did not come to bring a new religion to Israel and the world but a new covenant.

4) How did you get involved with HR?

It started with me becoming frustrated with what I was seeing going on in mainstream churches and I left mainstream hungry for true worship and went on a long spiritual journey praying for God to lead me to his people that worship him in spirit and in truth and not in man-made hypocrisy and traditions of men that I see in modern churches.  This led me to a group of people who believe in keeping the commandments and faith in Jesus.

Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. - Rev 14:12 KJV

I must say I don't agree with every HR group and their various teachings just like don't agree with all dominations.  HR is more a of movement and not a denomination. HR groups come in a verity fashions and flavors just like mainstream modern Christianity, but most follow the main tenants of what I mentioned above.

I was going to answer my experiences to your first post, but your second one here says it all.  I agree 110%.  One question.  A lot of Christians think the Law is "done away with" and yet we understand the moral Law is every bit in effect yet.  I believe what was done away with was the Law (i.e. ceremonies) that foreshadowed Jesus Christ.  In other words, as Paul would have said, (this) Law (of those ceremonies) were added because of transgression.  We have the commands but disobey so the sacrificial system and Levitical priesthood were there to bring us to (or to the time of) Christ. A place-filler foreshadowing and demonstrating the need for a sacrificial life and shed  blood SO THAT we are forgiven and the penalty was taken in order for us to live unto good works (which follows after every bit of the moral Law - that is wrapped up in love as love does no wrong).  Is this how you see it all?  In short, there's the moral Law that defines righteousness i.e. the fruit of righteousness, and then there's the ceremonial part that deals with sin.  We are no longer under the latter part as we no longer need to bring such a sacrificial offering that was done in Jesus Christ. But since he took our punishment, we are free to live by His commands.  If we trip up, the Lord has us covered.  But this is not to say we ought to deliberately sin because it is erroneously said it is all "done away with".  Blessings.

[Jedi4Yahweh]

14 hours ago, tim_from_pa said:

I was going to answer my experiences to your first post, but your second one here says it all.  I agree 110%.  One question.  A lot of Christians think the Law is "done away with" and yet we understand the moral Law is every bit in effect yet.  I believe what was done away with was the Law (i.e. ceremonies) that foreshadowed Jesus Christ.  In other words, as Paul would have said, (this) Law (of those ceremonies) were added because of transgression.  We have the commands but disobey so the sacrificial system and Levitical priesthood were there to bring us to (or to the time of) Christ. A place-filler foreshadowing and demonstrating the need for a sacrificial life and shed  blood SO THAT we are forgiven and the penalty was taken in order for us to live unto good works (which follows after every bit of the moral Law - that is wrapped up in love as love does no wrong).  Is this how you see it all?  In short, there's the moral Law that defines righteousness i.e. the fruit of righteousness, and then there's the ceremonial part that deals with sin.  We are no longer under the latter part as we no longer need to bring such a sacrificial offering that was done in Jesus Christ. But since he took our punishment, we are free to live by His commands.  If we trip up, the Lord has us covered.  But this is not to say we ought to deliberately sin because it is erroneously said it is all "done away with".  Blessings.

Yes, it was the Levitical priesthood that was considered the weakness of the Old Covenant.  It explains in the Book of Hebrews (chapters 7-10) that the offering of sin though yearly animal sacrifices offered by imperfect and sinful men (Levitical priesthood) for the atonement of sin was the issue.  God did not do away the the priesthood but changed the order and process, but there is still is a sin sacrifice required and a priesthood.  Yahshua became our sacrifice though his own blood.  Yahshua became our eternal high priest that offered a better sacrifice and a better priesthood that no longer requires an annual sin atonement but a eternal atonement.   It was the Levitical priesthood and regulations that changed.

 

[WilliamL]

On 10/4/2022 at 4:45 PM, Jedi4Yahweh said:

Jesus to include all his chosen apostles taught us to keep the moral law of God which is God's commandments. 

Agreed. The "Ten Debarim/Words/Principles/Matters" were directly spoken by God to His people. Whereas the Law of Moses was indirectly given to Israel by means of the mediator Moses. The Principles of God are immutable, but the Law of Moses is not. (It must be noted that Moses apparently added commentary to some of the text of the Ten Principles, because the accounts of Ex. 20 and Deut. 5 are different in numbers 4, 5, and 10. God only spoke once, so there should be no difference in the accounts, if they were really all words that God spoke.)

On 10/4/2022 at 4:45 PM, Jedi4Yahweh said:

You will not one find instance of his Peter, John, James, Jude, or Jesus teach the Law has been done away it, but quite contrary. 

This is a patently false claim.

Hebrews 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. ... 13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Matthew 19:7 They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?” 8 He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so."

-- and other such examples. Christ gave us a New Covenant, which includes the Ten Principles contained in the Old Covenant; but which New Covenant did away with the Law of Moses as written. (Although keeping some of its principles also.)

[Jedi4Yahweh]

On 10/7/2022 at 4:37 PM, WilliamL said:

Agreed. The "Ten Debarim/Words/Principles/Matters" were directly spoken by God to His people. Whereas the Law of Moses was indirectly given to Israel by means of the mediator Moses. The Principles of God are immutable, but the Law of Moses is not. (It must be noted that Moses apparently added commentary to some of the text of the Ten Principles, because the accounts of Ex. 20 and Deut. 5 are different in numbers 4, 5, and 10. God only spoke once, so there should be no difference in the accounts, if they were really all words that God spoke.)

So you don't believe the Torah that was given to Moses was accurate???

On 10/7/2022 at 4:37 PM, WilliamL said:

This is a patently false claim.

Hebrews 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. ... 13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Matthew 19:7 They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?” 8 He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so."

-- and other such examples. Christ gave us a New Covenant, which includes the Ten Principles contained in the Old Covenant; but which New Covenant did away with the Law of Moses as written. (Although keeping some of its principles also.)

I already explained Hebrews 8 above.

God's law is eternal and will never be obsolete.  Do you really think God will ever be okay with people that worship other Gods/Idols, blaspheme his name, dishonor their parents, adultery, murder, lies, cheating, stealing, and lusting after evil things.  NO!

All his commandments [are] sure. They stand fast for ever and ever, [and are] done in truth and uprightness. - Psa 111:7-8 

I will keep your law continually, forever and ever, - Psa 119:44 

The sum of your word is truth, and every one of your righteous laws endures forever. - Psa 119:160 

It is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the Law to become void. - Luk 16:17 

[WilliamL]

On 10/5/2022 at 9:02 AM, Jedi4Yahweh said:

Yahshua became our eternal high priest that offered a better sacrifice and a better priesthood that no longer requires an annual sin atonement but a eternal atonement.   It was the Levitical priesthood and regulations that changed.

On 10/8/2022 at 7:15 PM, Jedi4Yahweh said:

God's law is eternal and will never be obsolete.  ...

It is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the Law to become void. - Luk 16:17 

These two different posts do not agree with each other. In one, you say the Law was "changed," in the other, "will never be obsolete." One cannot follow both paths.

[NickyLouse]

 

On 10/12/2022 at 2:50 PM, WilliamL said:

These two different posts do not agree with each other. In one, you say the Law was "changed," in the other, "will never be obsolete." One cannot follow both paths.

Concerning the slaughter of animals and sprinkling of blood for the kippurim of sin, the Hebrew terms differ than English. The olah korban is not a burnt offering. It was not the blood of bulls and goats that took away sins (Heb 10:4). It was Yeshua. He is our ascent approach. He is our only covering. He always has been and always will be. In faith, the Levites did as they were commanded by bringing animals for slaughter. It pointed to Yeshua. In faith, we rely upon the shed blood of Yeshua. Nonetheless, we continue to make our olah korban - our ascent approach.