IF 'the dead' DEAD are not resurrected, who are we to rule and reign over for the 1000 years.

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

On 10/14/2022 at 9:12 PM, DeighAnn said:

I can't quit thinking about this,  and it has been on my mind ever since I read and answered it the first time but I have gone back and forth so many times on the yes there would be to the  no there wont,  and I think  I like your thoughts on this.  Certainly opened up new areas to explore.  

One side is when Christ returns for the Lords Day,  GOD isn't going to be dwelling until the New Heaven and earth or at least not  UNTIL 26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27For He hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. 

So UNTIL that point, there will remain the Kingdom of GOD with Him on His throne,  while the Kingdom of Heaven is here on earth with Christ sitting on the thone of David.  

Then I thought well then Israel the 'bloodline' would remain in heaven and then I thought no, cause of the Millennial temple and the Levites doing priestly duties and the encampments around it.  Then I thought I dont recall the elders or the living creatures being here during that time.

Then I thought about the angels that left their habitation and I thought maybe there is a group who stay in heaven while the rest come back to earth with Christ. I know many do but maybe not all.   

But in the end, I still am going to have to wait but till then I am thinking yes, there will be the two kingdoms for that Day.  I am really hoping this will help me to let it go for a while.  But right now it is a song stuck in my head...

What are your thoughts and do you have any Scripture yet on a yes or no? 

Anyway, thank you again.  

I do not believe that anyone will remain in heaven during the millennium.  All the saved who ever lived will be alive during that time. After that,  with the NEW Heaven and Earth,  I believe there will be no separation between the 2 and we will be able to travel from one to the other as easily as walking from one room to the next.  At the 2nd coming,  Everyone will return with him,  including you and me. Forgive me if I don't know exactly what you're question is. Please feel free to ask specific questions and if I have scripture to back up a certain belief,  I will gladly tell you. 

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

On 10/15/2022 at 4:55 AM, com7fy8 said:

First - - has Satan already been cast out from heaven?

Jesus says >

"I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven." (in Luke 10:18)

Jesus says this in past tense, showing Satan already is cast out of heaven.

So, has Satan already been cast out of heaven?

yes

Yes, Satan has already been cast down.  He no longer lives in heaven as the other angels do.  However as we see in the Book of Job,  he does still have access to heaven,  but only as a visitor,  not as a resident. 

[DeighAnn]

7 hours ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

Yes, Satan has already been cast down.  He no longer lives in heaven as the other angels do.  However as we see in the Book of Job,  he does still have access to heaven,  but only as a visitor,  not as a resident. 

Would that be just this time?

3  And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4  And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

or would that include this time?  If it would include this time, then where is he and his angels and what are they doing?


8  And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

[DeighAnn]

10 hours ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

I do not believe that anyone will remain in heaven during the millennium.  All the saved who ever lived will be alive during that time. After that,  with the NEW Heaven and Earth,  I believe there will be no separation between the 2 and we will be able to travel from one to the other as easily as walking from one room to the next.  At the 2nd coming,  Everyone will return with him,  including you and me. Forgive me if I don't know exactly what you're question is. Please feel free to ask specific questions and if I have scripture to back up a certain belief,  I will gladly tell you. 

We see that a little bit differently.  WHICH is just great because these are educated guesses at the moment and nothing more, just to be clear on my end.  

I believe that GOD will remain on HIS Throne in heaven while Christ will return to sit upon the throne of David on earth. 

I believe the 4 living creatures and the elders and 'others' will remain in heaven with GOD as His kingdom is just as real as anything we know.

So it is Christ and those who have been 'resurrected' from earth that will return with Him, and yes, that means you and I (unless we are STILL here and are alive and remaining, and hey, if Abraham and Sarah can have a child when they were that OLD, God can do anything, so I still have hope...)

I don't see GOD coming to earth until the GWTJ and at that time I believe the two are made one.  

BUT nothing I know of is dependent on this one way or the other so were good I think.  

Thank you for the clarification.   

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

4 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Would that be just this time?

3  And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4  And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

or would that include this time?  If it would include this time, then where is he and his angels and what are they doing?


8  And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

I admit I don't have all the answers, but I'm sure I don't need to tell you that.  I honestly am not sure what the heads and crowns mean.  I have guesses but that's all they are.  As far as the battle in Revelation 12, I believe that is the battle in the past from the original rebellion. Luckier rebelled shortly after the creation of Adam and Eve and his third of the angels rebelled with him.  Although this chapter is placed along futuristic chapters,  I think it already happened.  Of course I could be wrong about this passage and maybe there will be yet another future war between the Holy and Fallen angels in the future before the eternal state. 

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

2 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

We see that a little bit differently.  WHICH is just great because these are educated guesses at the moment and nothing more, just to be clear on my end.  

I believe that GOD will remain on HIS Throne in heaven while Christ will return to sit upon the throne of David on earth. 

I believe the 4 living creatures and the elders and 'others' will remain in heaven with GOD as His kingdom is just as real as anything we know.

So it is Christ and those who have been 'resurrected' from earth that will return with Him, and yes, that means you and I (unless we are STILL here and are alive and remaining, and hey, if Abraham and Sarah can have a child when they were that OLD, God can do anything, so I still have hope...)

I don't see GOD coming to earth until the GWTJ and at that time I believe the two are made one.  

BUT nothing I know of is dependent on this one way or the other so were good I think.  

Thank you for the clarification.   

That Christ will rule the earth during the Millennium is a certainty.  There is also the possibility that David will be his vice ruler from Jerusalem so to say. The 4 living creatures I believe are special angels,  so they likely remain in heaven.  I don't know if the 24 elders are literal of 24 actual beings or symbolic of all the saved ( the 12 sons of Jacob & the 12 apostles )? Who knows. I agree that God the father will remain in heaven. However I don't believe any people will be in heaven during the Millennium because the resurrection will have already happened when it begins. So all the saved from all time will be back on the earth for that time. Personally I can't wait to talk to Adam, Abraham, Mary, Paul, John, etc. Fortunately we have 1,000 years because I imagine the lines at those houses will be very long.  LOL.

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

I admit I don't have all the answers, but I'm sure I don't need to tell you that.  I honestly am not sure what the heads and crowns mean.  I have guesses but that's all they are.  As far as the battle in Revelation 12, I believe that is the battle in the past from the original rebellion. Luckier rebelled shortly after the creation of Adam and Eve and his third of the angels rebelled with him.  Although this chapter is placed along futuristic chapters,  I think it already happened.  Of course I could be wrong about this passage and maybe there will be yet another future war between the Holy and Fallen angels in the future before the eternal state. 

Here is my understanding, SO FAR, like you, a work in progress

And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman  -    THE EARTH

clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet,

and upon her head a crown of twelve stars  -   THE ZODIAC

2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.  -
 the dawning of an NEW AGE the birth pains 

3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth

JOB 38: 7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? 


and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. 

IN THE GARDEN BRINGING ABOUT CORRUPTION INTO THIS AGE

And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

CHRIST WAS BORN IN THE FLESH BUT HE WAS CRUCIFIED

And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

??

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 

WHY DO WE HAVE A HIGH PRIEST?  A MEDIATOR?  Someone who intercedes for us?  Because Satan stands accusing day and night until he is cast out


Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. 

We can ascertain that this 'short time' is after being cast out of heaven as IT IS NOT the 'short time' when he will be set free from being bound in the earth.  But it is a SHORT time, not an 'unlimited' time.  

WHAT we can also ascertain is SATAN will have the same TYPE OF 'kingdom' he had SET UP in heaven, that he will be bring to bear on earth WITH the exception of

And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.   

REMEMBER THE ONE IN HEAVEN ONLY HAD 7 CROWNS ON HIS HEADS. 


 

We don't have to 'guess' what much of it means because GODS words tell us

I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Since the HEADS have horns or KINGS, 
then AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED the mountains are their 'kingdoms'.   

So the beast is a ONE UNIT system/kingdom made up of kingdoms (heads) and kings (horns) that will be taken over by the angels that come at the end of the war and they will have ONE HOUR in which to....do their thing...deceive the world...666...


So, feel totally free to imput or remove or show me something completely different if you would like.  Either way just what I see what is written.  I have given it lots of thought and it feels like it is getting better...IDK.  
 

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

That Christ will rule the earth during the Millennium is a certainty.  There is also the possibility that David will be his vice ruler from Jerusalem so to say. The 4 living creatures I believe are special angels,  so they likely remain in heaven.  I don't know if the 24 elders are literal of 24 actual beings or symbolic of all the saved ( the 12 sons of Jacob & the 12 apostles )? Who knows. I agree that God the father will remain in heaven. However I don't believe any people will be in heaven during the Millennium because the resurrection will have already happened when it begins. So all the saved from all time will be back on the earth for that time. Personally I can't wait to talk to Adam, Abraham, Mary, Paul, John, etc. Fortunately we have 1,000 years because I imagine the lines at those houses will be very long.  LOL.

I don't know what a vice ruler does,  but I also believe CHRIST is coming back as KING and LORD and will be sitting on HIS THRONE.  After all how long has He been waiting??  
 

My list more goes with Jeremiah, Isaiah, Elijah, Peter, Daniel, Ezekiel....and yeah, I can't hardly wait. 

BUT, and I thank GOD for my belief because MY WAIT-TIME  is going to be way shorter than yours because I will ONLY be resurrecting the ONE TIME and that is when my flesh body dies, and I 'follow Him',  to where He is,

so I will be a chatting and hanging out until we be returning at the 2nd Advent

which I believe is when you will somehow be 'resurrecting' out from the dead??? how ever that goes.  

Either way it is going to be great.  

[com7fy8]

On 10/16/2022 at 2:26 PM, Revelation Man said:

the Holy Word leaves no doubt WHEN THIS HAPPENS, at the very end, the 1260 event. During the 70th week, else God's a liar.

And did you give the scripture reference which directly states this? 

You didn't, here.

[Linkin]

A few points for your consideration.

You should understand that many Christians believe in the Greek Mythological view that people ascend to heaven. 

Both the Old Testament and New Testament teach that the only way to eternal life is through resurrection of the body.

[LGV] John 3:13  And no one84 has ascended85 into the sky except the one who descended86 out of the sky, 87 the Son of Man. 88, 89

https://www.4windsfellowships.net/LGV/LGV_John.pdf

84 The Apostle John wrote this after the destruction of Jerusalem and the deaths of Peter and Paul. In Acts 2:34-35 Peter said that David had not ascended into the sky.

85 The perfect tense of the verb requires that after ascending, the Son remained in the sky at the time these words stated. This is proof that verse 13 was John’s commentary after the ascension rather than being part of Jesus’ dialogue with Nicodemus.

86 In John 6:38 Jesus said, “I have descended out of the sky” using the perfect tense of the verb (which requires a continued result of a past action) because He was still present on earth at the time. Here John used the aorist tense (which only describes a past action) because Jesus was no longer on earth when John made this statement. Other passages that refer to the Son of God having descended from the sky are: John 3:31; John 6:33,38,41-42,46,51,62; John 8:23; John 13:3; John 16:27-28; Eph. 4:9-10 (cf. Psalm 139:13-16).

87 This is a reference to Solomon’s riddle concerning the identity of the Son of God. “Who has ascended into the sky, or descended? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has bound the waters in a garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His name, and what is His Son's name, If you know?” (Prov. 30:4)

88 The Son of God descended from the sky to become flesh, then He ascended to the sky as Son of Man. That He was in the sky (Psalm 110:1) when John wrote this is not only shown from the clause, “the one being in the sky,” but also from the perfect tense of the verb translated “has ascended” which requires that the result of ascending continued to the present when John wrote this statement. This is proof that verse 13 was not spoken by Jesus, but was John’s commentary, from the perspective of when he wrote this Gospel after the destruction of Jerusalem.

89 The majority of later manuscripts add “who is in the sky,” but the oldest mss. do not contain this clause. The perfect tense of the verb “has ascended” requires that Jesus was in heaven when this statement was made, and the addition of “who is in the sky” no doubt was meant to reinforce this in order to indicate that verse 13 was John’s commentary rather than the words of Jesus.

An article that will help you understand the OT & NT better regarding death.

https://www.4windsfellowships.net/articles/Conscious.pdf

 

Edited October 18, 2022 by Linkin
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