Living Forever?

[kenny2212]

I'm positive it has been entrenched in Christian doctrine that all human spirits live forever. However, I do not agree. 

Genesis 3:22 (NKJV) - 

Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”.

In the above verse God is saying if mankind eats of the tree of life, mankind would live forever. Basically mankind would be indestructible.

To have an all-encompassing knowledge of the word "Indestructible", we need to understand it's root word "destroy". 

Google definition of the word "destroy" - 

transitive verb. 1 : to ruin the structure, ORGANIC EXISTENCE, or condition of...

 The words "organic existence" are the words I want us to take note of. Meaning of the individual words "organic" and "existence" are -

1. Organic - of, relating to, or derived from LIVING organisms. 

Take note of word "living". Of course we should all know "living" is derived from the word "life".

And

2. Existence - sentient or living being : LIFE

So basically "to destroy" is to "ruin life". So "Indestructible" is "unruinable life". 

Matthew 10:28 (NKJV) - 

And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

The Lord Jesus is the one talking here. Now we know the unresurrected body cannot go to the present hell, only the soul can. But the resurrected body and soul can go to the future hell (satan, the antichrist and the false prophet are cast there) - the lake of fire.

Rev. 20:15 (NKJV) -  

And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Rev. 21:8 (NKJV) - 

 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the SECOND DEATH.”

Death means death. Utter DESTRUCTION. 

Angel spirits are immortal but unrecreated humans (bodies with unrecreated spirits) are not.

Colossians 1:18 (NKJV) - 

And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, THE FIRSTBORN FROM THE DEAD, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

Only recreated humans (bodies with recreated spirits) are immortal.

Thank you for reading.

Any questions or comments?

 

 

Edited October 6, 2022 by kenny2212

[Riverwalker]

I agree

I have never seen in the nature of God anything that  would amount to the petty vindictiveness that eternal torment ( a phrase NOT found in the bible) .  The purpose of this life is the proving ground for the next eternal life, those who bow before God will go on to Eternal life in Christ....those who reject will go to the eternal (second) death and simply cease to be.

[tim_from_pa]

33 minutes ago, kenny2212 said:

I'm positive it has been entrenched in Christian doctrine that all human spirits live forever. However, I do not agree. 

Genesis 3:22 (NKJV) - 

Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”.

In the above verse God is saying if mankind eats of the tree of life, mankind would live forever. Basically mankind would be indestructible.

To have an all-encompassing knowledge of the word "Indestructible", we need to understand it's root word "destroy". 

Google definition of the word "destroy" - 

transitive verb. 1 : to ruin the structure, ORGANIC EXISTENCE, or condition of...

 The words "organic existence" are the words I want us to take note of. Meaning of the individual words "organic" and "existence" are -

1. Organic - of, relating to, or derived from LIVING organisms. 

Take note of word "living". Of course we should all know "living" is derived from the word "life".

And

2. Existence - sentient or living being : LIFE

So basically "to destroy" is to "ruin life". So "Indestructible" is "unruinable life". 

Matthew 10:28 (NKJV) - 

And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

The Lord Jesus is the one talking here. Now we know the unresurrected body cannot go to the present hell, only the soul can. But the resurrected body and soul can go to the future hell (satan, the antichrist and the false prophet are cast there) - the lake of fire.

Rev. 20:15 (NKJV) -  

And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Rev. 21:8 (NKJV) - 

 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the SECOND DEATH.”

Death means death. Utter DESTRUCTION. 

Angel spirits are immortal but unrecreated humans (bodies with spirits) are not.

Colossians 1:18 (NKJV) - 

And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, THE FIRSTBORN FROM THE DEAD, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

Only recreated humans (bodies with spirits) are immortal.

Thank you for reading.

Any questions or comments?

 

 

Yes, I basically agree with you here.  That is assuming I read everything correctly and did not inject my own thoughts in reading your post.  I will say this, that a lot of Greek and other pagan thought was interjected into Christianity.  One of which is an immortal soul (if we can state a few foundational facts than by extrapolation other doctrines either stand or fall).  Along that line is the separation of the soul from the body i.e. a conscious soul but unconscious body. Both of these are false.  An extrapolated doctrine if we did accept these beliefs about an immortal soul that can be separated from the body, then we get into doctrines such as "dying and going to heaven" or "dying and going to hell" even though logically to send anyone to heaven or hell is judging the outcome before the final judgement so I'm not sure how that passes the logic test.  From that since one may believe in the endlessness of the soul, then that allows for "eternal torment" when in fact, that is not dying, but rather eternal life in misery.  And with the eternal soul doctrine, if one instantly gets whisked off to heaven as a conscious spirit being, then the question would rightfully have to be asked as to the point in the resurrection?  Immediate life in heaven does not bother the worldly system because they don't inherently believe in resurrection and salvation.  To them salvation is the same old man but merely forgiven, but that is not what the bible teaches. Salvation involves a new man, a new creation and that person is granted immortality (only God is inherently immortal). This new man is to fix what Adam was supposed to have become had he taken from the Tree of Life but instead his race is dying from sin.  So it's the flesh and old man dying and a new man from this same person.

To prove that Greek and other worldly doctrines infiltrated Christianity, we can look at the obvious instead of the abstract.  One of which is the changing of the Sabbath to Sunday, and holidays that Paul warned us not to celebrate (every Christian knows about Halloween, Christmas and Easter but how about the holy days of the Lord in Leviticus 23?).  How about symbols like crosses and statues when we are told not to make any sort of image?  These are blatantly obvious without getting into the more hidden doctrines.  It reminds me of the verse that it is an honor for Kings to search out a matter, but as in the Law of Moses, we can choose to obey the obvious, and the wisdom of the Lord will come to us. 

[Jedi4Yahweh]

On 10/6/2022 at 9:33 AM, Riverwalker said:

I agree

I have never seen in the nature of God anything that  would amount to the petty vindictiveness that eternal torment ( a phrase NOT found in the bible) .  The purpose of this life is the proving ground for the next eternal life, those who bow before God will go on to Eternal life in Christ....those who reject will go to the eternal (second) death and simply cease to be.

What would be purpose of God stating there will be eternal torment and punishment if it does not exist.

[Rev 14:9-11 NKJV] 9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives [his] mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 "he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 "And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

[Mat 25:44-46] 44 "Then they also will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?' 45 "Then He will answer them, saying, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do [it] to one of the least of these, you did not do [it] to Me.' 46 "And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

[Luk 16:22-24 ] 22 "So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 "And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 "Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.'

[Mat 8:11-12] 11 "And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12 "But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

[Mat 22:13] 13 Then the king said to the attendants, 'Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

 

Edited October 7, 2022 by Jedi4Yahweh

[missmuffet]

On 10/6/2022 at 7:05 AM, kenny2212 said:

I'm positive it has been entrenched in Christian doctrine that all human spirits live forever. However, I do not agree. 

Genesis 3:22 (NKJV) - 

Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”.

In the above verse God is saying if mankind eats of the tree of life, mankind would live forever. Basically mankind would be indestructible.

To have an all-encompassing knowledge of the word "Indestructible", we need to understand it's root word "destroy". 

Google definition of the word "destroy" - 

transitive verb. 1 : to ruin the structure, ORGANIC EXISTENCE, or condition of...

 The words "organic existence" are the words I want us to take note of. Meaning of the individual words "organic" and "existence" are -

1. Organic - of, relating to, or derived from LIVING organisms. 

Take note of word "living". Of course we should all know "living" is derived from the word "life".

And

2. Existence - sentient or living being : LIFE

So basically "to destroy" is to "ruin life". So "Indestructible" is "unruinable life". 

Matthew 10:28 (NKJV) - 

And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

The Lord Jesus is the one talking here. Now we know the unresurrected body cannot go to the present hell, only the soul can. But the resurrected body and soul can go to the future hell (satan, the antichrist and the false prophet are cast there) - the lake of fire.

Rev. 20:15 (NKJV) -  

And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Rev. 21:8 (NKJV) - 

 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the SECOND DEATH.”

Death means death. Utter DESTRUCTION. 

Angel spirits are immortal but unrecreated humans (bodies with unrecreated spirits) are not.

Colossians 1:18 (NKJV) - 

And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, THE FIRSTBORN FROM THE DEAD, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

Only recreated humans (bodies with recreated spirits) are immortal.

Thank you for reading.

Any questions or comments?

 

 

If all human spirits do not live forever what do you think happens to them? The believers and the unbelievers.

[missmuffet]

On 10/6/2022 at 7:33 AM, Riverwalker said:

I agree

I have never seen in the nature of God anything that  would amount to the petty vindictiveness that eternal torment ( a phrase NOT found in the bible) .  The purpose of this life is the proving ground for the next eternal life, those who bow before God will go on to Eternal life in Christ....those who reject will go to the eternal (second) death and simply cease to be.

If I remember you do not believe in hell.

[kenny2212]

3 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

If all human spirits do not live forever what do you think happens to them? The believers and the unbelievers.

 Believers inherit eternal life; unbelievers are annihilated. Unbelievers of course burn in hell before the time comes when they are all cast in the lake of fire and are annihilated.

[missmuffet]

11 minutes ago, kenny2212 said:

 Believers inherit eternal life; unbelievers are annihilated. Unbelievers of course burn in hell before the time comes when they are all cast in the lake of fire and are annihilated.

Is annihilationism biblical?

https://www.gotquestions.org

ANSWER

Annihilationism is the belief that unbelievers will not experience an eternity of suffering in hell, but will instead be “extinguished” after death. For many, annihilationism is an attractive belief because of the awfulness of the idea of people spending eternity in hell. While there are some passages that seem to argue for annihilationism, a comprehensive look at what the Bible says about the destiny of the wicked reveals the fact that punishment in hell is eternal. A belief in annihilationism results from a misunderstanding of one or more of the following doctrines: 1) the consequences of sin, 2) the justice of God, 3) the nature of hell.

In relation to the nature of hell, annihilationists misunderstand the meaning of the lake of fire. Obviously, if a human being were cast into a lake of burning lava, he/she would be almost instantly consumed. However, the lake of fire is both a physical and spiritual realm. It is not simply a human body being cast into the lake of fire; it is a human’s body, soul, and spirit. A spiritual nature cannot be consumed by physical fire. It seems that the unsaved are resurrected with a body prepared for eternity just as the saved are (Revelation 20:13; Acts 24:15). These bodies are prepared for an eternal fate.

Eternity is another aspect which annihilationists fail to fully comprehend. Annihilationists are correct that the Greek word aionion, which is usually translated “eternal,” does not by definition mean “eternal.” It specifically refers to an “age” or “eon,” a specific period of time. However, it is clear that in the New Testament, aionion is sometimes used to refer to an eternal length of time. Revelation 20:10 speaks of Satan, the beast, and the false prophet being cast into the lake of fire and being tormented “day and night forever and ever.” It is clear that these three are not “extinguished” by being cast into the lake of fire. Why would the fate of the unsaved be any different (Revelation 20:14-15)? The most convincing evidence for the eternality of hell is Matthew 25:46, “Then they [the unsaved] will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” In this verse, the same Greek word is used to refer to the destiny of the wicked and the righteous. If the wicked are only tormented for an “age,” then the righteous will only experience life in heaven for an “age.” If believers will be in heaven forever, unbelievers will be in hell forever.

Another frequent objection to the eternality of hell by annihilationists is that it would be unjust for God to punish unbelievers in hell for eternity for a finite amount of sin. How could it be fair for God to take a person who lived a sinful, 70-year life, and punish him/her for all of eternity? The answer is that our sin bears an eternal consequence because it is committed against an eternal God. When King David committed the sins of adultery and murder he stated, “Against you, you only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight” (Psalm 51:4). David had sinned against Bathsheba and Uriah; how could David claim to have only sinned against God? David understood that all sin is ultimately against God. God is an eternal and infinite Being. As a result, all sin against Him is worthy of an eternal punishment. It is not a matter of the length of time we sin, but the character of the God against whom we sin.

A more personal aspect of annihilationism is the idea that we could not possibly be happy in heaven if we knew that some of our loved ones were suffering an eternity of torment in hell. However, when we arrive in heaven, we will not have anything to complain about or be saddened by. Revelation 21:4 tells us, “He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.” If some of our loved ones are not in heaven, we will be in 100 percent complete agreement that they do not belong there and that they are condemned by their own refusal to accept Jesus Christ as their Savior (John 3:16; 14:6). It is hard to understand this, but we will not be saddened by the lack of their presence. Our focus should not be on how we can enjoy heaven without all of our loved ones there, but on how we can point our loved ones to faith in Christ so that they will be there.

Hell is perhaps a primary reason why God sent Jesus Christ to pay the penalty for our sins. Being “extinguished” after death is no fate to dread, but an eternity in hell most definitely is. Jesus’ death was an infinite death, paying our infinite sin debt so that we would not have to pay it in hell for eternity (2 Corinthians 5:21). When we place our faith in Him, we are saved, forgiven, cleansed, and promised an eternal home in heaven. But if we reject God’s gift of eternal life, we will face the eternal consequences of that decision.
 

FOR FURTHER STUDY

Four Views on Hell, Second Edition by Burk & Stackhouse

Edited October 7, 2022 by missmuffet

[Marathoner]

An interesting topic. I'm in agreement with the OP regarding eternal life. I'm on my phone right now, so I will reference passages of scripture instead of pasting them in this post.

As the scriptures inform us, our Lord Jesus Christ gives us eternal life (John 10:28) which is to say, those whose lives are hidden in Him (Colossians 3:3). We died and are raised in newness of life with the Lord (Colossians 2:12). Clearly, there is no eternal life for man outside of the Lord.

We also consider how our Father in heaven is merciful to man, allowing His rain to fall upon the righteous and wicked alike; this refers to God's mercy extended toward all men, whom He has granted repentance and forgiveness. The Almighty has not extended the same to the devil and his angels. We also notice how passages referring to eternal torment refer specifically to Satan and his angels, the Beast, and the False Prophet.

As for hell, this is properly understood to be the lake of fire prepared for the devil and his angels, which is also where those whose names are not written in the book of life are cast. Ah, but remembering that scripture does not contradict scripture, I believe that destruction is the final mercy of God afforded to wicked man. 

Man is destroyed in the lake of fire, not tortured forever. This, I believe, is in keeping with the harmony of the scriptures. Remember this:

Man is the creation of God, and He shows us mercy which He has not extended to our brethren --- the angels --- and there is no other He has granted to sit with Him upon His throne. God the Father is moved to have mercy upon us all, both the righteous and the wicked.

The righteous in Jesus Christ inherit eternal life and His kingdom without end,

And the wicked are destroyed in the lake of fire (hell).

[missmuffet]

For those who believe in annihilation and do not believe that the soul lasts for an eternity you are supporting what is not biblical. There is no where in the Holy Bible that says the soul will be destroyed. You are giving the Holy Words that are in the Bible your own interpretation. That goes along with choices that we make.