Climate Change Is Extremely Political And Agenda Serving, Unfortunately It Is Also True

[The Barbarian]

6 hours ago, JasperWalls11 said:

Oh, let me tell you, the wrath of God is far worse than anything that we could do to ourselves.   If you read the Bible, you will discover that the wrath of God in the tribulation period is a supernatural judgement that will be inflicted upon the earth on a level that no one could ever imagine.   There is just no comparison.  

Maybe so.   But my observation is that evil people tend to damage themselves.   Evil is often its own punishment.

 

[Ps37]

8 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

.You seem to have won my argument for me.

Don't be so gullible.

 

 

On 5/27/2023 at 9:14 AM, The Barbarian said:

China actually releases about half as much carbon per person as the United states. 

China: 7. 38 tons per person    United States: 15.52 tons per person

 And you were fed misinformation yet again...

https://www.ucsusa.org/resources/each-countrys-share-co2-emissions

As you see, China does not produce more greenhouse gases than the entire developed world combined.

 

The website I cited stated:

 

But China emits more greenhouse gas than the entire developed world combined.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-57018837

 

 

 

I guess we were supposed to be "gullible" enough not to notice that your attempt at refutation required you to alter the parameters to "per capita" ("for reasons everyone can understand").

 

Your own website states the following:

 

"The rankings above change when we account for the population of each country (ie, per capita emissions)":

 

China: 9.90 Metric gigatons     

United States: 4.70 Metric gigatons

India: 2.30 Metric gigatons

Russian Federation: 1.60 Metric gigatons

Japan: 1.10 Metric gigatons

Germany: 0.64 Metric gigatons

 

As you see, China produces almost exactly the same amount of greenhouse gases as the United States, India, Russian Federation, Japan, and Germany combined.

 

11 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

Remember, read the scientific literature, if you don't want to be fooled.

 

[The Barbarian]

50 minutes ago, Ps37 said:

But China emits more greenhouse gas than the entire developed world combined.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-57018837

Because they have more than 4 times as many people as we do, they produce more than any other nation.   However, you were lied to about more than the rest of the world combined.   That's just false.    Being the largest industrialized nation, they do a lot.  But not more than the rest of the world.   About 29.8% of the world's CO2 emissions:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions

50 minutes ago, Ps37 said:

I guess we were supposed to be "gullible" enough not to notice that your attempt at refutation required you to alter the parameters to "per capita" ("for reasons everyone can understand").

Yeah, apples to apples pretty much ruins the narrative, doesn't it?   You'd think it an unfair comparison if I told you that the U.S. produces more CO2 then the UK, wouldn't you? 

50 minutes ago, Ps37 said:

As you see, China produces almost exactly the same amount of greenhouse gases as the United States, India, Russian Federation, Japan, and Germany combined.

So what happened to the "more then the entire developed world combined?"  Just those five developed nations, with less than half the population of China, produce almost as much CO2 as China.

The combined populations of Germany, U.S., Russia, and Japan are about 683 million to China's 1.4 billion.   And yet those nations alone contribute almost as much CO2 (24.5%) as China alone (29.4%).   Half the population, and nearly the same amount of CO2.  

Do you really not see this?  Remember, read the scientific literature, if you don't want to be fooled.

 

Edited May 30, 2023 by The Barbarian

[JasperWalls11]

5 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

Well, that's a testable belief...

No, that's wrong.   It's clearly getting hotter faster.

As you see, it's a demonstrable fact that it's warming up.  What's alarming is that we are currently in a solar minimum, in which we should be cooling off.  Instead we're getting record high global temperatures.

Yes, if you are only measuring since the 19th century, but it is important to understand that 19th century was coming out of mini-ice age.  It was actually quite warm in the Medieval period.  The Lord designed the earth to toggle between cooling and warming periods.  It's how it regulates its internal temperature.  There have been climate alarmists since the 80s and none of their predictions ever came true.   The Lord did not give us an earth we can destroy. Nature does more damage to the environment than humans do.

[JasperWalls11]

5 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

Maybe so.   But my observation is that evil people tend to damage themselves.   Evil is often its own punishment.

 

Man-made climate change is a myth.  Man has no control over the weather.

[The Barbarian]

1 hour ago, JasperWalls11 said:

Man-made climate change is a myth. 

Sorry, even Exxon corporation admits it's a fact.   No point in denial.

1 hour ago, JasperWalls11 said:

Man has no control over the weather.

Man has changed climate before.   The issue is now we can and are doing it globally.  Would you like to learn how we know?

 

[The Barbarian]

6 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

What we are experiencing is nothing that our ancestors 80-100 years ago suffered. 

Well, that's a testable belief...

No, that's wrong.   It's clearly getting hotter faster.

As you see, it's a demonstrable fact that it's warming up.  What's alarming is that we are currently in a solar minimum, in which we should be cooling off.  Instead we're getting record high global temperatures.

Yes, if you are only measuring since the 19th century,

You said 80-100 years ago.   That's what I showed you.   As you see, what we are experiencing is something quite different.

but it is important to understand that 19th century was coming out of mini-ice age.  It was actually quite warm in the Medieval period.

Well, let's take a look at that...

No, you're wrong about that, too.

There have been climate alarmists since the 80s and none of their predictions ever came true.

O.K., let's look at that.   James Hanson, decades ago, predicted global temperatures depending on what (if anything) we did about it.   His prediction for "doing something but not very much" came out pretty much spot on:

 

[JasperWalls11]

3 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

Sorry, even Exxon corporation admits it's a fact.   No point in denial.

Man has changed climate before.   The issue is now we can and are doing it globally.  Would you like to learn how we know?

 

The climate has always been changing.    The earth cools and warms over time.  I don't deny "climate change."  I deny the man-made aspect of it.    Everyone knows that the climate doesn't stay the same, but they can't get you to change your toilet or your car "for the sake of the environment" unless they can convince you that you are the problem and that you are destroying the world.  That's called manipulation.  The falderal over Climate Change would be meaningless unless they can manipulate you into thinking that just living your life is destructive.  Unfortunately, a lot of people bought into it.   

I guess I would be more accepting of the whole Climate Change story if they didn't have to change the name from Global Warming to Climate Change, after their predictions didn't come true.  They have been predicting all kinds of stuff for decades and they have always been wrong.      We were supposed to have all of these disasters if we didn't change.  These predictions of doom were going on for decades and nothing happened.  We didn't burn up or drown, the polar bears didn't go extinct, the ice cap didn't melt and cause the oceans to flood.  Polar bear populations have increased as has the polar ice cap, the climate Armageddons they predicted for decades never happened. 

Climate Change has been a tool that governments have used for the sake of control.  They don't really care about the climate.  It's about convincing everyone to change their lightbulbs and toilets, the ridiculous Electric vehicles and now they want to ban gas stoves.  They want to get rid of cows and airplanes, and get everyone to switch to "green" energy and eat bugs.  It's all about control.  This has only been about what you're not allowed to own, what you're not allowed buy, what you're not allowed to eat, what you're not allowed to say, where you're not allowed to go.  It's all about control and nothing else. 

 

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You said 80-100 years ago.   That's what I showed you.   As you see, what we are experiencing is something quite different.

Yes, I should have worded that better.  My point is that I can remember older people talking about the very same kinds of weather conditions from the 1930s as what we are facing now.  And yes, there have been times going back hundreds of years when the weather was similar to what it is now and we didn't have the technology we have today that allegedly affects the climate.  

I just don't buy the man-made Climate Change guilt trip and I will not be guilted into changing anything.

Edited May 31, 2023 by JasperWalls11

[Ps37]

8 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

So what happened to the "more then the entire developed world combined?"  Just those five developed nations, with less than half the population of China, produce almost as much CO2 as China.

I will grant you that it is a fair point that China does not produce more greenhouse gas than the rest of the developed world when lesser industrial powers like Indonesia, Saudi Arabia and South Korea are removed from the mix.  Valid point.

 

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I learned a long time ago, it's best to trot out the data instead of getting frustrated with personal stuff. 

 

8 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

You'd think it an unfair comparison if I told you that the U.S. produces more CO2 then the UK, wouldn't you? 

Since you have no data to support your assumption about me, it seems this falls more under the rubric of personal stuff, so it seems fair enough for me to make an assumption of my own:

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China actually releases about half as much carbon per person as the United states. 

China: 7. 38 tons per person    United States: 15.52 tons per person

This seems like an effort to make it appear that China is half the polluter the US is, otherwise sticking with the absolute numbers should have sufficed.

 

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Far back as I can remember, most of the media were reporting what the climatologists were reporting; things were warming up.    I do notice that some climate denier websites have faked magazine covers and other things to enhance their revisionist stories.

Since no evidence is presented for "faked magazine covers and other things" other than the fact that you state you "noticed" them, it seems assertions can be made or refuted on the basis of personal say-s0.

It seems also that assertions can be made or refuted on the basis of personal recollection ("far back as I can remember").

In that case, some of us do in fact have memories that extend far enough back to remember when the warnings of the "coming ice age" were widely disseminated on a regular basis.

[The Barbarian]

1 hour ago, Ps37 said:

This seems like an effort to make it appear that China is half the polluter the US is, otherwise sticking with the absolute numbers should have sufficed.

And the US is over 4 times the polluter that Belgium is.   For the same reason that China is a greater polluter than the US is. 

1 hour ago, Ps37 said:

Since no evidence is presented for "faked magazine covers and other things"

From the 1977 cover we can see that apparently a new ice age was supposed to arrive. Only 30 years later, according to the 2006 cover, global warming is supposed to be the problem. But the cover on the left isn’t from 1977. It actually is this Time cover from April 9, 2007:

https://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2013/06/04/the-1970s-ice-age-myth-and-time-magazine-covers-by-david-kirtley

1 hour ago, Ps37 said:

It seems also that assertions can be made or refuted on the basis of personal recollection ("far back as I can remember").

Go to the link and see.   It's unfortunately the way many denier websites operate.

1 hour ago, Ps37 said:

In that case, some of us do in fact have memories that extend far enough back to remember when the warnings of the "coming ice age" were widely disseminated on a regular basis.

Well, let's take a look...

https://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2013/06/04/the-1970s-ice-age-myth-and-time-magazine-covers-by-david-kirtley

That's what I recall.   But even then, I was reading the scientific literature by real climatologists.  So maybe we  remember things differently.

 

Edited May 31, 2023 by The Barbarian