The Barbarian Posted May 8, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,053 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 969 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/20/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted May 8, 2023 4 hours ago, Ps37 said: "The goal under the treaty for housing is to reduce emissions by 80% from their 2005 levels. An analysis by the researchers suggests that U.S. households won’t meet the 2050 targets set for residential emissions, even if the electricity grid relies on cleaner sources of energy. Only if homes are smaller and more tightly packed together would that target be achievable." That actually has very little to do with flooding per se. Mostly, it will aggravate storm surges, but only by a bit. Have you seen the numbers? Might be worth checking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ps37 Posted May 9, 2023 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 200 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 268 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/01/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 9, 2023 (edited) 19 hours ago, The Barbarian said: This kind of hysterical exaggeration is a common characteristic of denier websites. Quote 23 hours ago, The Barbarian said: A big house probably means very little to the issue. Quote 23 hours ago, The Barbarian said: But the general outlook is for faster rises than had been predicted. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-02/sea-levels-are-rising-faster-than-most-pessimistic-forecasts?leadSource=uverify wall I'm guessing these are "denier websites": https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-02/sea-levels-are-rising-faster-than-most-pessimistic-forecasts?leadSource=uverify wall https://www.nationalgeographic.com/pages/article/sea-level-rise-flood-global-warming-science https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/10/29/climate/coastal-cities-underwater.html https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32690718/ On 5/8/2023 at 8:48 AM, The Barbarian said: And as you see, those ocean-front estates are meters above the expected ocean rise this century. https://www.sealevel.info/Obama_seaside_villa_Marthas_Vineyard/ https://whatismyelevation.com/location/41.36189,-70.54573/79-Turkeyland-Cove-Rd--Edgartown--MA-02539- By "meters," you mean "less than one" (above present sea level.) On 5/8/2023 at 8:48 AM, The Barbarian said: Why do you think they built them on hills? What is the definition of "hills"? Edited May 9, 2023 by Ps37 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Barbarian Posted May 9, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,053 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 969 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/20/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted May 9, 2023 This kind of hysterical exaggeration is a common characteristic of denier websites. A more reasonable estimate: It isn’t pretty. Sea-level rise will make every tropical cyclone that hits New York more likely to release damaging floods. For instance, storm floods of nearly seven-and-a-half feet once occurred only a couple times per millennium. In today’s somewhat warmed climate, 7.5-foot floods are projected to happen every 25 years. By 2030, these floods will occur every five years. New York City has experienced 7.5-foot floods several times in the past decade. Superstorm Sandy loosed 10- or 11-foot floods on much of Manhattan, Brooklyn, and Staten Island, killing 43 people and inundating more than 88,000 buildings. Not all of the news from the study’s estimates was bad. In a climate-changed world, the effects of storm surge on New York may remain about the same. Even though future hurricanes are likely to be more intense—and thus more likely to “push” more water in front of them, as storm surge—the hurricane models also showed the same storms avoiding New York Harbor. In other words, global warming seems to redirect some of the largest hurricanes eastward. It’s unclear why this may be the case. https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/10/climate-change-nyc-floods/543708/ BTW, most sources say Obama's house is about 3 meters above sea level. As you can see from the picture, Kerry's is a lot higher. Even many denier websites admit it. From Watt's Up With That? NOAA tide gauge data for Boston, Woods Hole and Nantucket Island shows about 1 foot per century of steady coastal sea level rise at these locations. At ten feet above sea level his billion dollar family can enjoy the place for about 10 centuries. Maybe even longer if he stops the oceans from rising. CO2isLife https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/08/24/sea-level-rise-president-obama-just-bought-a-beachside-property/ Based on current rise, it's closer to 100 years, but probably not going to run Barack and family out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ps37 Posted May 10, 2023 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 200 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 268 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/01/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 10, 2023 I don't believe there has ever been any disagreement about Obama's house being washed away. And that, perhaps ironically, is the point. Proponents of the position that "climate change is an existential threat" (in large measure because of "rising sea levels") then claim that it is, in fact, their opponents that are engaging in hyperbole. Their opponents then indicate that they are simply quoting the so-called "denier websites" that are, in fact, outlets for climate change proponents. I know of no one who believes the NY Times, NPR, etc. are "right-wing denier" outlets. Yet headlines like: "Rising Seas Will Erase More Cities by 2050," "Sea Level Rise Will Flood Hundreds of Cities in the Near Future," "Rising sea levels threaten hundreds of millions – and it’s much worse than we thought," "15 cities that could be underwater by 2030," "What countries and cities will disappear due to rising sea levels?," "John Kerry Says Climate Change Is An 'Existential' Crisis," "Obama on Climate Change: The Trends Are ‘Terrifying'," come from outlets like CNN, NY Times, National Geographic, NPR: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/pages/article/sea-level-rise-flood-global-warming-science https://www.timeout.com/things-to-do/cities-that-could-be-underwater-by-2030 https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/10/29/climate/coastal-cities-underwater.html https://www.livescience.com/what-places-disappear-rising-sea-levels https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/30/world/rising-sea-cities-study-intl-hnk-scli-sci/index.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/08/us/politics/obama-climate-change.html https://www.npr.org/2021/04/23/990307470/john-kerry-says-climate-change-is-an-existential-crisi I have not found any evidence of Obama, Kerry, et al, disputing or refuting any claims such as those indicated above. The issue for some of us is that those claims of "existential threat" are used by elites to demand lifestyle sacrifices of the rest of us, yet those same claims of "existential threat" are then downplayed to defend the lifestyle choices of those same elites. When outlets like the NY Times can run headlines like "Rising Seas Will Erase More Cities by 2050," yet we're supposed to believe coastline estates 1 meter (or 3) above sea level are safe, it produces a certain level of skepticism. (Orwell: "Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.") The links below may further illustrate why some of us question the genuineness of the "climate concerns" held by certain elites: https://www.homesandgardens.com/news/president-obama-new-house-marthas-vineyard https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1922205117 https://www.ecowatch.com/carbon-emissions-2646445096-2646445096.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Barbarian Posted May 16, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,053 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 969 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/20/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted May 16, 2023 On 5/10/2023 at 11:02 AM, Ps37 said: I know of no one who believes the NY Times, NPR, etc. are "right-wing denier" outlets. Yet headlines like: "Rising Seas Will Erase More Cities by 2050," "Sea Level Rise Will Flood Hundreds of Cities in the Near Future," "Rising sea levels threaten hundreds of millions – and it’s much worse than we thought," "15 cities that could be underwater by 2030," "What countries and cities will disappear due to rising sea levels?," "John Kerry Says Climate Change Is An 'Existential' Crisis," "Obama on Climate Change: The Trends Are ‘Terrifying'," come from outlets like CNN, NY Times, National Geographic, NPR: But not from scientific journals. Some of that might be valid,depending on the interpretation. Certainly, some cities already have areas flooded at least some of the time. But if you went with the scientific literature, you wouldn't be so confused by it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ps37 Posted May 16, 2023 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 200 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 268 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/01/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 16, 2023 On 5/9/2023 at 8:59 AM, The Barbarian said: This kind of hysterical exaggeration is a common characteristic of denier websites. 11 hours ago, The Barbarian said: But if you went with the scientific literature, you wouldn't be so confused by it all. One might assume that the "hysterical denier websites" like CNN, NY Times, NPR, would have "went with the scientific literature." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Barbarian Posted May 23, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,053 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 969 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/20/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted May 23, 2023 On 10/15/2022 at 11:13 AM, ayin jade said: Please explain the warming period of the middle ages that was warmer than today. Preceded the Industrial Revolution. But here's why that isn't part of the problem... There are natural cycles to climate. We should currently be in a major cooling period. Instead the rise in temperatures is unprecedented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Barbarian Posted May 23, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,053 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 969 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/20/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted May 23, 2023 (edited) On 5/16/2023 at 8:40 AM, Ps37 said: One might assume that the "hysterical denier websites" like CNN, NY Times, NPR, would have "went with the scientific literature." Well, perhaps it would be good if you presented checkable links to the articles to see for ourselves. Bottom line is, the scientific literature is probably where you should go for scientific issues. Edited May 23, 2023 by The Barbarian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Barbarian Posted May 23, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,053 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 969 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/20/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted May 23, 2023 (edited) On 10/15/2022 at 6:33 PM, Dennis1209 said: Or the recorded mini-ice ages with no summers or crops. If a few more volcanoes pop off, we need to do away with all air conditioning and motor equipment. Actually, volcanic eruptions do tend to slightly cool global temps, as you suggest. The explosion of Krakatoa for example, caused one of those "years with no summer." But it was unbelievably huge. Most eruptions don't come close to that. In general, a few volcanic eruptions don't affect climate very much. A lot of them, or a few big ones, that would cool things off noticeably. Edited May 23, 2023 by The Barbarian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ps37 Posted May 23, 2023 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 200 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 268 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/01/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 23, 2023 1 hour ago, The Barbarian said: Well, perhaps it would be good if you presented checkable links to the articles to see for ourselves. Posted twice before: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/pages/article/sea-level-rise-flood-global-warming-science https://www.timeout.com/things-to-do/cities-that-could-be-underwater-by-2030 https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/10/29/climate/coastal-cities-underwater.html https://www.livescience.com/what-places-disappear-rising-sea-levels https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/30/world/rising-sea-cities-study-intl-hnk-scli-sci/index.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/08/us/politics/obama-climate-change.html https://www.npr.org/2021/04/23/990307470/john-kerry-says-climate-change-is-an-existential-crisi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts