Dispensational doomers, Pessimistic eschatology, And Dispensationalist Zionism has inflitrated Christianity and the church. Praying.

[believeinHim]

On 11/11/2022 at 9:19 AM, AdHoc said:

 

The context of this statement was the CONTRASTING by Paul, of Israel and the Church. Then suddenly, in the middle of contrasting, Paul declares a common mother. "US ALL" is Israelite and Believer.

This is remarkable because Paul was showing how UN-common they are. Israel hate Jesus. The Church loves Him. Israel deny Jesus, the Church confesses Him. Israel persecute the Church. the Church must bare it. At present, it would seem that Israel and the Church are opposites. But God's plan is with Abraham's SEED. And Abraham has THREE Seeds; (i) Jesus, (ii) seed as the sand of the seashore, and (iii) seed as the stars of heaven. Thus, New Jerusalem INCORPORATED Jesus, Israel and the Church. They may be enemies now, but in God's plan each has its place. This does not mean that they mingle. Each has a set task.

Thus, in Galatians, though we are different and take a different way, we have a common mother - Jerusalem  above. In Romans 11 we have an Olive Tree. A Tree in Parable is a king and his kingdom (Judg.9, Dan.4, Ezek.31). The Root is holy. Only Jesus is holy. Israel are the natural branches and the Church is the wild branches. Israel are temporarily cut off. Later, they re grafted in again. In Revelation 12 we have the church divided into Overcomer and those in a wilderness. We also have a Remnant of Israel in the same wilderness. They all have the same MOTHER - the Woman in heaven. In New Jerusalem we have Walls and Gates. Same City, same God, same plan, but two entirely different entities.

I remember back those years when I was first faced with this knowledge. I went in circles for a long time. Take your time.

Hagar did not give birth to a Gentile. Hagar gave birth to Ishmael. Ishmael is not a Gentile. Ishmael is the cause of all of the strife in the middle East. I would liken him to that of a Muslim. Although, America has meddled in that, as well. 

[AdHoc]

On 11/13/2022 at 11:14 PM, believeinHim said:

Hagar did not give birth to a Gentile. Hagar gave birth to Ishmael. Ishmael is not a Gentile. Ishmael is the cause of all of the strife in the middle East. I would liken him to that of a Muslim. Although, America has meddled in that, as well. 

The word "Gentiles" in the Bible pertains to all members of the "Nations" - as you can see in Genesis 10:5. Hagar did indeed bring forth Ishmael and they've caused their fair share of troubles. The "Trouble" in the Middle East has gone through a lot of trouble makers. The Canaanites were worshiping idols, mating with angels and burning their children alive to appease the demon-god Molech. They polluted the Land so badly that God wanted Israel to wipe them out. Then came Israel and they warred for about 570 years.

In about 730 BC the Assyrians made life hell for the other nations and then succumbed to Babylon - who, in about 530 BC made trouble for Judah. Now Judah was worshiping idols, oppressing the poor and causing their children to be burned alive to Molech. And so on through the Ottoman Empire. The world only took note of Ishmael's offspring when cars were discovered and oil was needed. And Ishmael's offspring only got famous when the American oil oligarchs needed a presence near Ishmael's land to guarantee their control of the Middle Eastern oil.

But then there's no trouble maker more adept than the Holy Roman Empire. They needed Jerusalem because everybody knows that the winner gets Jerusalem and the religious winner gets the hearts of 1.3 billion people. So ... introduce 1,500 years of corruption, murder and intrigue from Rome, including the crusades and the inquisition, plus helping Hitler and the Russian communists ply their revolution, and you probably have the biggest "Trouble-maker" of all time.

The Ishmaelites have their family wars and their customized jets, but if oil had not been found in the Middle East, you wouldn't even have heard about them. And if we are honest it was Abraham who started it all by listening to his wife.

What do you think brother? While Israel kept the Law under David they were invincible. Then they swapped their God for demon-gods, a thing that not even the heathen have done, and killed God's prophets. Then they murdered their Messiah and their darkest hour is yet to come when they embrace the Beast and set him up in their Temple. I am aware that they are God's People and I'm aware of the Covenant made with Abraham by God. But if Israel had loved God and kept the Law, the strife in the middle East would be long over and Israel would be the leading nation.

The only question now is, is the history of the Church going to be any better than Israel's? Never mind the Gentiles.

[Keras]

Who is the true Israel?   

Is it the small number of people who call their nation Israel?   Or are they a vast multitude of faithful Christian people of God, scattered among all the nations? 

Remember that Jesus said: I have come to save the lost sheep of Israel.   If He referred to Jewish Israel, then He failed.  But Paul plainly stated who the Israelites of God are. Galatians 6:14-16  He was successful and we Christians are the result!

[farouk]

1 Corinthians 10.32 says there are three groups of people: Jews, Gentiles and the church of God.

[Keras]

6 hours ago, farouk said:

1 Corinthians 10.32 says there are three groups of people: Jews, Gentiles and the church of God.

There are just two groups of people in the world according to God:

Those who believe in Him and keep the Commandments and those who do not

The idea of a special Jewish redemption cannot be found in the Bible. 

[farouk]

8 minutes ago, Keras said:

There are just two groups of people in the world according to God:

Those who believe in Him and keep the Commandments and those who do not

The idea of a special Jewish redemption cannot be found in the Bible. 

The church is composed of people from both a Jewish and Gentile background.

Many Jews and many Gentiles are not in the true church, spiritually. Hence it is clear that the 3 groups mentioned by 1 Cor. 10.32 - Jews, Gentiles and the church - do indeed stand as accurate.

[Keras]

1 minute ago, farouk said:

The church is composed of people from both a Jewish and Gentile background.

Many Jews and many Gentiles are not in the true church, spiritually. Hence it is clear that the 3 groups mentioned by 1 Cor. 10.32 - Jews, Gentiles and the church - do indeed stand as accurate.

The Church is every faithful believer in God and in the Salvation of Jesus. They come from every tribe, race, nation and language,  Revelation 7:9

Those people who reject God and Jesus, are the ungodly peoples and many Prophesies tell us they will be Judged. Revelation 20:11-15, Hebrews 10:27

 

[missmuffet]

I am a dispensationalist and it is very biblical.

What is dispensationalism and is it biblical?

https://www.gotquestions.org

ANSWER

A dispensation is a way of ordering things—an administration, a system, or a management. In theology, a dispensation is the divine administration of a period of time; each dispensation is a divinely appointed age. Dispensationalism is a theological system that recognizes these ages ordained by God to order the affairs of the world. Dispensationalism has two primary distinctives: 1) a consistently literal interpretation of Scripture, especially Bible prophecy, and 2) a view of the uniqueness of Israel as separate from the Church in God’s program. Classical dispensationalism identifies seven dispensations in God’s plan for humanity.
 

Dispensationalists hold to a literal interpretation of the Bible as the best hermeneutic. The literal interpretation gives each word the meaning it would commonly have in everyday usage. Allowances are made for symbols, figures of speech, and types, of course. It is understood that even symbols and figurative sayings have literal meanings behind them. So, for example, when the Bible speaks of “a thousand years” in Revelation 20, dispensationalists interpret it as a literal period of 1,000 years (the dispensation of the Kingdom), since there is no compelling reason to interpret it otherwise.

 

There are at least two reasons why literalism is the best way to view Scripture. First, philosophically, the purpose of language itself requires that we interpret words literally. Language was given by God for the purpose of being able to communicate. Words are vessels of meaning. The second reason is biblical. Every prophecy about Jesus Christ in the Old Testament was fulfilled literally. Jesus’ birth, ministry, death, and resurrection all occurred exactly as the Old Testament predicted. The prophecies were literal. There is no non-literal fulfillment of messianic prophecies in the New Testament. This argues strongly for the literal method. If a literal interpretation is not used in studying the Scriptures, there is no objective standard by which to understand the Bible. Each person would be able to interpret the Bible as he saw fit. Biblical interpretation would devolve into “what this passage says to me” instead of “the Bible says.” Sadly, this is already the case in much of what is called Bible study today.

 

Dispensational theology teaches that there are two distinct peoples of God: Israel and the Church. Dispensationalists believe that salvation has always been by grace through faith alone—in God in the Old Testament and specifically in God the Son in the New Testament. Dispensationalists hold that the Church has not replaced Israel in God’s program and that the Old Testament promises to Israel have not been transferred to the Church. Dispensationalism teaches that the promises God made to Israel in the Old Testament (for land, many descendants, and blessings) will be ultimately fulfilled in the 1000-year period spoken of in Revelation 20. Dispensationalists believe that, just as God is in this age focusing His attention on the Church, He will again in the future focus His attention on Israel (see Romans 9–11 and Daniel 9:24).

 

Dispensationalists understand the Bible to be organized into seven dispensations: Innocence (Genesis 1:1—3:7), Conscience (Genesis 3:8—8:22), Human Government (Genesis 9:1—11:32), Promise (Genesis 12:1—Exodus 19:25), Law (Exodus 20:1—Acts 2:4), Grace (Acts 2:4—Revelation 20:3), and the Millennial Kingdom (Revelation 20:4–6). Again, these dispensations are not paths to salvation, but manners in which God relates to man. Each dispensation includes a recognizable pattern of how God worked with people living in the dispensation. That pattern is 1) a responsibility, 2) a failure, 3) a judgment, and 4) grace to move on.

Dispensationalism, as a system, results in a premillennial interpretation of Christ’s second coming and usually a pretribulational interpretation of the rapture. To summarize, dispensationalism is a theological system that emphasizes the literal interpretation of Bible prophecy, recognizes a distinction between Israel and the Church, and organizes the Bible into different dispensations or administrations.

Edited December 5, 2022 by missmuffet

[missmuffet]

4 minutes ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

It's very un- Biblical. Jesus reigns in heaven, not on earth. Judaism teaches that their king will reign on this earth.

Suit yourself. Your eyes and your mind have digested my words. That is all that needs to be done.

[missmuffet]

20 minutes ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

Just out of curiosity....where do you read in the new testament that the nation of Israel has future glory or blessings?

Have you every read Isaiah? And then there is Romans and the book of Revelation. Pick up the Bible and read it literally as God has intended. Don't give it your own words. 

Edited December 5, 2022 by missmuffet