David1701 Posted November 9, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.54 Reputation: 3,522 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted November 9, 2022 2 hours ago, Vine Abider said: Sure! It sounds like you are saying grace is unmerited favor, but also has an ongoing characteristic to it - can you elaborate? Grace (unmerited favour) is the attitude that God is showing, towards the person to whom he gives the gift. The gift itself could be anything. It's a kind of grammatical substitution: the word "grace" takes the place of the gift itself (whatever it may be). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vine Abider Posted November 10, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 6 Topic Count: 200 Topics Per Day: 0.36 Content Count: 3,449 Content Per Day: 6.21 Reputation: 2,300 Days Won: 3 Joined: 10/25/2022 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/01/2024 Author Share Posted November 10, 2022 57 minutes ago, David1701 said: Grace (unmerited favour) is the attitude that God is showing, towards the person to whom he gives the gift. The gift itself could be anything. It's a kind of grammatical substitution: the word "grace" takes the place of the gift itself (whatever it may be). Does that definition of grace (unmerited favor) fit well into this verse, or does it perhaps come up a little short: "Grace (unmerited favor) and peace be multiplied to you . . ."? (2 Peter 1:2) I mean it does fit in the way a small hand fits in an extra large glove, but I think Peter here is referring to something more than just unmerited favor. Strong's Definition of grace g5485 Quote χάρις cháris, khar'-ece; from G5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude):—acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace(- ious), joy, liberality, pleasure, thank(-s, -worthy). Notice the definition words of joy and pleasure. Like it says, "especially the divine influence upon the heart." Unmerited favor certainly can produce joy & pleasure in the heart. But if you look at 2 Corinthians 12:9, I think there's more to it than only unmerited favor: " "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.' Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me." And then this verse, "But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me." (1 Cor 15:10) If we substitute "unmerited favor," I don't know that we do the intent of grace in this verse justice. Grace comes through Christ, and Christ comes to us through the "bountiful supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ." (Phil 1:9) I think grace also means His supply to us, that is, ability to follow His will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted November 10, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 907 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,650 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,833 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted November 10, 2022 Grace is God unringing a bell. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve morrow Posted November 10, 2022 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,053 Content Per Day: 0.62 Reputation: 371 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/15/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/07/1955 Share Posted November 10, 2022 WHAT IS GODS GRACE REALLY AGAIN --- TITUS 2:11 for the --the grace of GOD-- that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men --2:12-- ***TEACHING US*** that denying --ungodliness-- and worldly lusts -- we should live soberly -- RIGHTEOUSLY -- and godly -- in this present world GODLINESS --- PSALM 92:5 O LORD how great are thy works and thy thoughts are very deep *******92:6 A BRUTISH MAN KNOWETH NOT NEITHER DOTH A FOOL UNDERSTAND THIS******* 1 TIMOTHY 6:3 if any man teach otherwise and consent not to --wholesome words-- EVEN THE WORDS OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST --and to the doctrine-- WHICH IS ACCORDING TO GODLINESS --6:4-- he is proud --knowing nothing-- but doting about questions and strifes of words whereof cometh envy strife railings evil surmisings --6:5-- perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds --and destitute of the truth-- supposing that gain is godliness -- FROM SUCH WIHDRAW THYSELF -- --6:6-- but godliness with --contentment-- is great gain LOVING THE LORD JESUS CHRIST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1701 Posted November 10, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.54 Reputation: 3,522 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted November 10, 2022 23 hours ago, Vine Abider said: Does that definition of grace (unmerited favor) fit well into this verse, or does it perhaps come up a little short: "Grace (unmerited favor) and peace be multiplied to you . . ."? (2 Peter 1:2) I mean it does fit in the way a small hand fits in an extra large glove, but I think Peter here is referring to something more than just unmerited favor. Strong's Definition of grace g5485 Notice the definition words of joy and pleasure. Like it says, "especially the divine influence upon the heart." Unmerited favor certainly can produce joy & pleasure in the heart. But if you look at 2 Corinthians 12:9, I think there's more to it than only unmerited favor: " "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.' Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me." And then this verse, "But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me." (1 Cor 15:10) If we substitute "unmerited favor," I don't know that we do the intent of grace in this verse justice. Grace comes through Christ, and Christ comes to us through the "bountiful supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ." (Phil 1:9) I think grace also means His supply to us, that is, ability to follow His will. As I said, "grace" is sometimes used to represent a gift given by God (no matter what the gift may be). You could say "grace-gift" of _____. Just fill in the blank. Whatever God gives his children is a grace-gift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vine Abider Posted November 11, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 6 Topic Count: 200 Topics Per Day: 0.36 Content Count: 3,449 Content Per Day: 6.21 Reputation: 2,300 Days Won: 3 Joined: 10/25/2022 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/01/2024 Author Share Posted November 11, 2022 1 hour ago, David1701 said: As I said, "grace" is sometimes used to represent a gift given by God (no matter what the gift may be). You could say "grace-gift" of _____. Just fill in the blank. Whatever God gives his children is a grace-gift. So His supply to us, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1701 Posted November 11, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.54 Reputation: 3,522 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted November 11, 2022 18 hours ago, Vine Abider said: So His supply to us, right? Yes_ish, as long as it's included that his supply to us is done in unmerited favour, and that, sometimes, his grace to us is not giving us something which would be harmful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vine Abider Posted November 11, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 6 Topic Count: 200 Topics Per Day: 0.36 Content Count: 3,449 Content Per Day: 6.21 Reputation: 2,300 Days Won: 3 Joined: 10/25/2022 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/01/2024 Author Share Posted November 11, 2022 14 minutes ago, David1701 said: Yes_ish, as long as it's included that his supply to us is done in unmerited favour, and that, sometimes, his grace to us is not giving us something which would be harmful. Of course! That's why I sorta like thinking grace is "unmerited supply" or even "favored supply." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted November 11, 2022 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 395 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 319 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/20/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted November 11, 2022 On 11/8/2022 at 8:34 AM, Vine Abider said: I've often heard that the definition of grace in the Bible is just God's "unmerited favor." However, if I plug "unmerited favor" into certain verses, it doesn't fit well. That is, a number of verses with grace in them seem to imply something of a supply or an energizing from God. A few verses: "And God is able to make all grace overflow to you, so that, always having all sufficiency in everything, you may have an abundance for every good deed" 2 Cor. 9:8 “My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness.” Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me." 2 Cor. 12:9 "The Lord be with your spirit; grace be with you. 2 Tim. 4:22 So is grace just favor from God we don't deserve, or is there more to it than that --> What is your insight and experience of grace? Unconditional love. It cannot be received conditionally. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vine Abider Posted November 28, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 6 Topic Count: 200 Topics Per Day: 0.36 Content Count: 3,449 Content Per Day: 6.21 Reputation: 2,300 Days Won: 3 Joined: 10/25/2022 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/01/2024 Author Share Posted November 28, 2022 On 11/11/2022 at 3:25 PM, Raven said: Unconditional love. It cannot be received conditionally. Yes, we have nothing to offer. Zip, zilch, nada! We just come as we are . . . always! A verse I read this morning: "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God" (Eph 2:8) This really shows the "unmerited favor" side of grace. The other side of grace is the supply we enjoy ongoing of our immeasurable Christ and His Spirit in us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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