The Efficacy of Water Baptism

[Retrobyter]

42 minutes ago, Cntrysner said:

The commission right before Christ ascended and some supporting scripture.

Mat 28:18  And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 
Mat 28:19  Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 
Mat 28:20  Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. 

The commission was to teach and the teaching (words) of the gospel would do the baptizing no need for water.

 

Shalom, Cntrysner.

That's an interesting theory, but the Scriptures do not support it. Instead, we find ...

Acts 8:26-40 (KJV)

26 And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying,

"Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert."

27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship, 28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet. 29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip,

"Go near, and join thyself to this chariot."

30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said,

"Understandest thou what thou readest?"

31 And he said,

"How can I, except some man should guide me?"

And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

32 The place of the scripture which he read was this,

"He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth: 33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth." (Isaiah 53:7-8)

34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said,

"I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?"

35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. 36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said,

"See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?"

37 And Philip said,

"If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest."

And he answered and said,

"I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."

38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. 39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing. 40 But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea.

 

42 minutes ago, Cntrysner said:

Eph 5:26..  That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word. 
Tit 3:5  Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;  

Mar 16:15  And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 
Mar 16:16  He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 

Christ is including baptism with believing as a requirement for salvation and it is not optional.

Nope. Sorry, but that is NOT what one should be concluding from Mark 16:15. If one pays attention to the logic, "is baptized" is included in the positive statement, but the negative statement doesn't include its mention: "He that believeth not shall be damned (condemned)." So, baptism is NOT a "requirement for salvation" or it would have been included in BOTH the negative AND the positive!

Ephesians 5:26 uses the WRONG GREEK WORD for what you are trying to convey; here's the Greek:

26 ἵνα αὐτὴν ἁγιάσῃ, καθαρίσας τῷ λουτρῷ τοῦ ὕδατος ἐν ῥήματι,

This is transliterated as ...

26 hina auteen hagiasee, katharisas too loutroo tou hudatos en hreemati,

And this translates word-for-word into ...

26 so-that she is-made-holy, cleansing-[her] in-the-washing of-the water in command,

It is not the word "logos" translated as "word," but rather the Greek word "hreema," meaning "a saying of any kind, as command, report, or promise."

 

42 minutes ago, Cntrysner said:

Notice at first it says believeth and is baptized  then it just says believeth not leaving out baptized. Clearly this is Spirit baptism an operation of God not a water baptism which is a work of men. 

Nope. Again, wrong conclusion. The baptism of John was definitely a water baptism, but the chief priests, the scribes, and the elders reasoned like this:

Mark 11:27-33; 12:1-12 (KJV)

27 And they come again to Jerusalem: and as he was walking in the temple, there come to him the chief priests, and the scribes, and the elders, 28 And say unto him,

"By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority to do these things?"

29 And Jesus answered and said unto them,

"I will also ask of you one question, and answer me, and I will tell you by what authority I do these things. 30 The baptism of John, was it from heaven, or of men? answer me."

31 And they reasoned with themselves, saying,

"If we shall say, 'From heaven'; he will say, 'Why then did ye not believe him?' 32 But if we shall say, 'Of men'...";

they feared the people: for all men counted John, that he was a prophet indeed. 33 And they answered and said unto Jesus,

"We cannot tell."

And Jesus answering saith unto them,

"Neither do I tell you by what authority I do these things."

1 And he began to speak unto them by parables.

"A certain man planted a vineyard, and set an hedge about it, and digged a place for the winefat, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country. 2 And at the season he sent to the husbandmen a servant, that he might receive from the husbandmen of the fruit of the vineyard. 3 And they caught him, and beat him, and sent him away empty. 

4 "And again he sent unto them another servant; and at him they cast stones, and wounded him in the head, and sent him away shamefully handled. 

5 "And again he sent another; and him they killed, and many others; beating some, and killing some. 6 Having yet therefore one son, his well beloved, he sent him also last unto them, saying,

"'They will reverence my son.'

7 But those husbandmen said among themselves,

"'This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and the inheritance shall be ours.!'

8 "And they took him, and killed him, and cast him out of the vineyard. 9 What shall therefore the lord of the vineyard do?"

"he will come and destroy the husbandmen, and will give the vineyard unto others!"

10 "And have ye not read this scripture;

"'The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner: 11 This was the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes'?"

12 And they sought to lay hold on him, but feared the people: for they knew that he had spoken the parable against them: and they left him, and went their way.

Luke also gives us an account:

Luke 20:1-18 (KJV)

1 And it came to pass, that on one of those days, as he taught the people in the temple, and preached the gospel, the chief priests and the scribes came upon him with the elders, 2 And spake unto him, saying,

"Tell us, by what authority doest thou these things? or who is he that gave thee this authority?"

3 And he answered and said unto them, "I will also ask you one thing; and answer me: 4 The baptism of John, was it from heaven, or of men?"

5 And they reasoned with themselves, saying,

"If we shall say, 'From heaven'; he will say, 'Why then believed ye him not?' 6 But and if we say, 'Of men'; all the people will stone us: for they be persuaded that John was a prophet!"

7 And they answered, that they could not tell whence it was. 8 And Jesus said unto them,

"Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things."

9 Then began he to speak to the people this parable;

"A certain man planted a vineyard, and let it forth to husbandmen, and went into a far country for a long time. 10 And at the season he sent a servant to the husbandmen, that they should give him of the fruit of the vineyard: but the husbandmen beat him, and sent him away empty. 

11 "And again he sent another servant: and they beat him also, and entreated him shamefully, and sent him away empty. 

12"And again he sent a third: and they wounded him also, and cast him out. 

13 "Then said the lord of the vineyard,

"'What shall I do? I will send my beloved son: it may be they will reverence him when they see him.'

14 "But when the husbandmen saw him, they reasoned among themselves, saying,

"'This is the heir: come, let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours!'

15 "So they cast him out of the vineyard, and killed him.

"What therefore shall the lord of the vineyard do unto them?"

16 "He shall come and destroy these husbandmen, and shall give the vineyard to others."

And when they heard it, they said,

"God forbid!"

17 And he beheld them, and said,

"What is this then that is written, 'The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner?

18 "'Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.'"

And, Matthew attaches a few parables that Yeeshuwa` added:

Matthew 21:23-46 (KJV)

23 And when he was come into the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came unto him as he was teaching, and said,

"By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority?"

24 And Jesus answered and said unto them,

"I also will ask you one thing, which if ye tell me, I in like wise will tell you by what authority I do these things. 25 The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men?"

And they reasoned with themselves, saying,

"If we shall say, 'From heaven'; he will say unto us, 'Why did ye not then believe him?' 26 But if we shall say, 'Of men'; we fear the people; for all hold John as a prophet."

27 And they answered Jesus, and said,

"We cannot tell."

And he said unto them,

"Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things.

28 "But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said,

"'Son, go work to day in my vineyard.'

29 "He answered and said,

"'I will not': but afterward he repented, and went. 

30 "And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said,

"'I go, sir': and went not. 

31 "Whether of them twain did the will of his father?"

They say unto him,

"The first."

Jesus saith unto them,

"Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you. 32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

33 "Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country: 

34 "And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it. 35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another. 

36 "Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise. 

37 "But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.' 

38 "But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves,

"'This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance!'

39 "And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him. 

40 "When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?"

41 They say unto him,

"He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons!"

42 Jesus saith unto them,

"Did ye never read in the scriptures,

"'The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes'?

43 "Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. 44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder!"

45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them. 46 But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.

"Out of the mouths of two or three witnesses, a thing shall be established."

42 minutes ago, Cntrysner said:

Luk 24:46  And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: 
Luk 24:47  And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

If you believe remission of sins is through His finished work as the gospel teaches then you are baptized by the word.  

Act 1:5  For John truly baptized with water; but (on the contrary) ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. 

Don't add words to what Yeeshuwa` said! That's a DANGEROUS practice!

42 minutes ago, Cntrysner said:

Act 1:6  When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? 
Act 1:7  And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. 
Act 1:8  But(on the contrary) ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

There you go AGAIN! These words are NOT said "on the contrary" to what they were thinking, but were in ADDITION to what they were thinking! Yeeshuwa` NEVER said "being baptized by the Ruwach haQodesh ('the Holy Spirit')" REPLACED "the baptism of Yochanan the Immerser!" That's a FALSE assumption!

It's also a FALSE assumption to think that "the receiving of the Holy Ghost's power" REPLACED the Lord "restoring again the Kingdom to Israel!" All He told them is that it was not yet time because "the times or the seasons which the Father hath put in His own power" will happen in HIS timing!

42 minutes ago, Cntrysner said:

What was Christ’s witness?

Joh 5:33  Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth. 
Joh 5:34  But (on the contary) I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved. 
Joh 5:35  He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light. 
Joh 5:36  But (on the contary) I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me. 

Joh 7:37  In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 
Joh 7:38  He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 
Joh 7:39  (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) 

The living water is the word of God and only it can wash clean a dirty sinner and it is Spirit baptism.

Joh 6:62  What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? 
Joh 6:63  It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.  

Act 1:9  And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up (glorified); and a cloud received him out of their sight.

After Christ's ascension God the Father sent the Holy Spirit to do the baptizing and the apostles were instructed to wait for the Holy Spirit.

Eph 4:5  One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

1Co 1:17  For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Again, I caution you against assuming that "but" always means "on the contrary." It doesn't! Most of the time, "but" can be replaced with the word "however." But, the contrast of two different thoughts doesn't mean that one replaces the other. Instead, they can exist together on different plains of importance!

I also challenge your understanding of some of the more basic, biblical words, such as "spirit," "glorified," "preach," and "gospel." You may not even understand the title "Christ."

Also, I've already explained that it was NOT Paul's gift to baptize. His gift was in presenting the arguments for Yeeshuwa` being the Messiah of God and the future King of Israel, and he reasoned both with the Jews and with the Gentiles in the cities to which he was sent. His purpose was to PLANT EKKLEESIAI ('called out' groups of people).

So, his words in 1 Corinthians 1:17 are not to say that he rejected baptism, but that that was not HIS gift! He left that procedure to the leaders of the ekkleesiai he started.

[Cntrysner]

10 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

That's an interesting theory, but the Scriptures do not support it. Instead, we find ...

You would have a better argument if you used Christ's words to understand His meaning not a eunuch requesting water baptism. The Spirit did not command Phillip to water baptize. You need to understand that Christ is that Spirit.

 

10 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Nope. Sorry, but that is NOT what one should be concluding from Mark 16:15. If one pays attention to the logic, "is baptized" is included in the positive statement, but the negative statement doesn't include its mention: "He that believeth not shall be damned (condemned)." So, baptism is NOT a "requirement for salvation" or it would have been included in BOTH the negative AND the positive!

Sorry, you are wrong again. Baptism is definitely required for salvation and it is an operation of God by the Spirit. There is only one baptism today as Paul said, why don't you believe it. Eph 4:5  One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

To be continuied..

I don't think I'll have enough time to keep up with you..

[Cntrysner]

On 4/28/2024 at 7:39 PM, Retrobyter said:

It is not the word "logos" translated as "word," but rather the Greek word "hreema," meaning "a saying of any kind, as command, report, or promise."

Yes but it is referring to the word of Christ who is the Word.

Eph 5:26  That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 
Eph 5:27  That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. 

On 4/28/2024 at 7:39 PM, Retrobyter said:

Nope. Again, wrong conclusion. The baptism of John was definitely a water baptism, but the chief priests, the scribes, and the elders reasoned like this:

Yes, John did truly baptize in water. Please explain in your own words what you are trying to convey.

On 4/28/2024 at 7:39 PM, Retrobyter said:

Don't add words to what Yeeshuwa` said! That's a DANGEROUS practice!

I did not intend to thus the parentheses and different color.

 

On 4/28/2024 at 7:39 PM, Retrobyter said:

There you go AGAIN! These words are NOT said "on the contrary" to what they were thinking, but were in ADDITION to what they were thinking! Yeeshuwa` NEVER said "being baptized by the Ruwach haQodesh ('the Holy Spirit')" REPLACED "the baptism of Yochanan the Immerser!" That's a FALSE assumption!

They believed the kingdom would be restored at that time which was false.

Act 1:5... but-adversative or continuative

Act 1:8.. but-contrariwise

Joh 5:34.. but-adversative or continuative

Joh 5:36..but-adversative or continuative

Got to go again..busy remodeling my home.

Edited April 30 by Cntrysner

[Cntrysner]

On 4/28/2024 at 7:39 PM, Retrobyter said:

Yeeshuwa` NEVER said "being baptized by the Ruwach haQodesh ('the Holy Spirit')" REPLACED "the baptism of Yochanan the Immerser!" That's a FALSE assumption!

Israel under the law were to be a nation of priests (Exo 19:6) in their promised coming kingdom and water baptism was a required purification ritual to enter the kingdom. John the Baptist prepared Jesus and Israel to be priests with water immersion. The nation of Israel rejected their messiah and became not God’s people and the Kingdom was put on hold (Act 1:5-8). 

Water baptism was Israel’s testimonial witness to accepting the Messiah and the earthly kingdom and the Baptist and Peter called it a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins (Luk 3:3, Act 2:38). This water baptism is no longer required because the kingdom is on hold and there is no more remission by performing the act.

John’s mission was over once Jesus was made manifest to Israel (Joh 1:31). Christ gave us a new message for remission of sins in Mat 26:28  “For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins“ which superseded John’s message for remission.
Christ’s testament is like a last will and testament where in all you have to do is believe it and receive it and it is not a covenant where one is required to perform an act or work to receive it.  

To be continued...computer acting up 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, @Cntrysner.

That's a great rationalization, but it is NOT supported by the Scriptures. We are given the ordnance of water baptism, as well. Take it to heart!

[Cntrysner]

On 5/1/2024 at 9:00 AM, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, @Cntrysner.

That's a great rationalization, but it is NOT supported by the Scriptures. We are given the ordnance of water baptism, as well. Take it to heart!

Gentiles are not under ceremonial law and that is a realization.

Edited May 3 by Cntrysner

[Cntrysner]

Continued from above....

John understood his water baptism of repentance for remission of sins could not purify but through their obedience to it and accepting Jesus as messiah they would receive remission of sins (Joh 3:25-28). Many where saying that John was the messiah (the Christ) and the Baptist knew that he and his message must decrease (Joh 3:30) to avoid division as seen later with water baptism for remission (1 Co 1:10-23) so that Christ and His message in the new testament (testimony) for remission of sins could be exalted. In Christ all things become new (2 Co 5:17) and we should listen to Christ not man whether it be the Baptist or apostle unless it lines up with the words of Christ (Mat 17:5). The Baptist was a great witness to the coming of Messiah but the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than John (Mat 11:11). John’s message of obedience to water baptism for remission granted admission into a earthly kingdom but we who have been baptized by the Spirit of Christ into His body have a higher calling that is not of this earth.
Eph 2:6  And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:  
 

[Retrobyter]

On 5/3/2024 at 5:55 AM, Cntrysner said:

Continued from above....

John understood his water baptism of repentance for remission of sins could not purify but through their obedience to it and accepting Jesus as messiah they would receive remission of sins (Joh 3:25-28). Many where saying that John was the messiah (the Christ) and the Baptist knew that he and his message must decrease (Joh 3:30) to avoid division as seen later with water baptism for remission (1 Co 1:10-23) so that Christ and His message in the new testament (testimony) for remission of sins could be exalted. In Christ all things become new (2 Co 5:17) and we should listen to Christ not man whether it be the Baptist or apostle unless it lines up with the words of Christ (Mat 17:5). The Baptist was a great witness to the coming of Messiah but the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than John (Mat 11:11). John’s message of obedience to water baptism for remission granted admission into a earthly kingdom but we who have been baptized by the Spirit of Christ into His body have a higher calling that is not of this earth.
Eph 2:6  And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:  
 

Shalom, Cntrysner.

I agree; we SHOULD listen to what Yeeshuwa` said, and the LAST THINGS He said were these:

Matthew 28:18-20 (KJV)

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying,

"All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world."

Amen.

You HAVE ADMITTED that the disciples - the apostles (sent ones) - could not do what Yeeshuwa` did; therefore, this is a WATER baptism! The word "baptizing" above is the Greek word is "βαπτίζοντες" which means "submerging" or "dunking" them!

And, prior to this, the disciples were doing just what John had been doing:

John 3:22-24 (KJV)

22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in AEnon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized. 24 For John was not yet cast into prison.

John 4:1-3 (KJV)

1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John, 2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,) 3 He left Judaea, and departed again into Galilee.

Then, we read this:

Acts 16:14-34 (KJV)

14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul. 15 And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying,

"If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there."

And she constrained us.

16 And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying: 17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying,

"These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation."

18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit,

"I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her!"

And he came out the same hour.

19 And when her masters saw that the hope of their gains was gone, they caught Paul and Silas, and drew them into the marketplace unto the rulers, 20 And brought them to the magistrates, saying,

"These men, being Jews, do exceedingly trouble our city, 21 And teach customs, which are not lawful for us to receive, neither to observe, being Romans!"

22 And the multitude rose up together against them: and the magistrates rent (tore) off their clothes, and commanded to beat them. 23 And when they had laid many stripes upon them, they cast them into prison, charging the jailor to keep them safely: 24 Who, having received such a charge, thrust them into the inner prison, and made their feet fast in the stocks.

25 And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and the prisoners heard them. 26 And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one's bands were loosed. 27 And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled. 28 But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying,

"Do thyself no harm: for we are all here."

29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, 30 And brought them out, and said,

"Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"

31And they said,

"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house."

32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. 33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway. 34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.

Now, I agree that God does indeed immerse us in His Ruwach haQodesh - His Holy Spirit - for His Son's sake, but we should not neglect the OTHER SIDE OF THE SAME COIN, namely, that Yeeshuwa` said to baptize with water - IMMERSE them IN WATER, as well.

We baptize with water - not for the redemption itself - but because Yeeshuwa` TOLD us to do so and for a clean consciencce before Him.

[Retrobyter]

Shabbat shalom, again, @Cntrysner.

Regarding Ephesians 2:6, it's been erroneously translated many times, and we should take a very close look at it in light of the Greek:

First, here's the King James translation within the context:

Ephesians 2:1-10 (KJV)

1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3 Among whom also we all had our conversation (lifestyle) in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us (has made us alive) together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) 6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus: 7 That IN THE AGES TO COME he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in [his] kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Now, let's look at the Greek:

1 Καὶ ὑμᾶς ὄντας νεκροὺς τοῖς παραπτώμασιν καὶ ταῖς ἁμαρτίαις 2 ἐν αἷς ποτε περιεπατήσατε κατὰ τὸν αἰῶνα τοῦ κόσμου τούτου κατὰ τὸν ἄρχοντα τῆς ἐξουσίας τοῦ ἀέρος τοῦ πνεύματος τοῦ νῦν ἐνεργοῦντος ἐν τοῖς υἱοῖς τῆς ἀπειθείας· 3 ἐν οἷς καὶ ἡμεῖς πάντες ἀνεστράφημέν ποτε ἐν ταῖς ἐπιθυμίαις τῆς σαρκὸς ἡμῶν ποιοῦντες τὰ θελήματα τῆς σαρκὸς καὶ τῶν διανοιῶν καὶ ἤμεν τέκνα φύσει ὀργῆς ὡς καὶ οἱ λοιποί· 

4 ὁ δὲ θεὸς πλούσιος ὢν ἐν ἐλέει διὰ τὴν πολλὴν ἀγάπην αὐτοῦ ἣν ἠγάπησεν ἡμᾶς 5 καὶ ὄντας ἡμᾶς νεκροὺς τοῖς παραπτώμασιν συνεζωοποίησεν τῷ Χριστῷ χάριτί ἐστε σεσῳσμένοι 6 καὶ συνήγειρεν καὶ συνεκάθισεν ἐν τοῖς ἐπουρανίοις ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ 7 ἵνα ἐνδείξηται ἐν τοῖς αἰῶσιν τοῖς ἐπερχομένοις τὸν ὑπερβάλλοντα πλοῦτον τῆς χάριτος αὐτοῦ ἐν χρηστότητι ἐφ᾽ ἡμᾶς ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ 8 τῇ γὰρ χάριτί ἐστε σεσῳσμένοι διὰ τῆς πίστεως· καὶ τοῦτο οὐκ ἐξ ὑμῶν θεοῦ τὸ δῶρον· 9 οὐκ ἐξ ἔργων ἵνα μή τις καυχήσηται 10 αὐτοῦ γάρ ἐσμεν ποίημα κτισθέντες ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ ἐπὶ ἔργοις ἀγαθοῖς οἷς προητοίμασεν ὁ θεὸς ἵνα ἐν αὐτοῖς περιπατήσωμεν.

Verses 6 and 7 are transliterated as ....

6 kai suneegeiren kai sunekathisen en tois epouraniois en Christoo Ieesou 7 hina endeixeetai en tois aioosin tois eperchomenois ton huperballonta plouton tees charitos autou en chreestoteeti ef' heemas en Christoo Ieesou 

And this is translated word-for-word into English as ...

6 And He-raised-[us]-up-together and made-[us]-sit-together in the [places]-above-the-skies in Messiah Yeeshuwa` 7 so-that He-might-show in the ages the-ones that-are-coming the over-shooting riches of the grace of-Him in kindness upon us in Messiah Yeeshuwa`

We're not already there physically in "the places above the skies," except in the Person of the Messiah Yeeshuwa` who is there physically NOW! Rather, "IN THE AGES THAT ARE COMING" He will show the abundant riches of His grace in kindness upon us in the Messiah Yeeshuwa`.

 

 

[Cntrysner]

18 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Cntrysner.

I agree; we SHOULD listen to what Yeeshuwa` said, and the LAST THINGS He said were these:

Matthew 28:18-20 (KJV)

Hello again, @Retrobyter

18 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

You HAVE ADMITTED that the disciples - the apostles (sent ones) - could not do what Yeeshuwa` did; therefore, this is a WATER baptism! The word "baptizing" above is the Greek word is "βαπτίζοντες" which means "submerging" or "dunking" them!

Again as I have shown you before, the words of Christ spoken by the apostles is what would baptize (immerse)  into the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost we become one with them. 

Joh 17:20  Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 
Joh 17:21  That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 

The words of Christ which is the word of God now has the power of the Spirit and it has nothing to do with sinful flesh. I ask you, do you think one can cleanse their flesh and make it acceptable to a Holy God when it is nothing but dirt?

Joh 6:62  What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? 
Joh 6:63  It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. 

19 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

And, prior to this, the disciples were doing just what John had been doing:

Keeping water baptism which was for remission of sins is the problem, it was not a picture of something that would happen or already happened but it was a required act to receive remission. Christ is the truth and the life and He gave us a new message for remission of sins via the new testament in His blood (Mat 26:28) ( hear Him). Most reject His blood or dilute it with water to cleanse their filthy sinful bodies making His blood ineffectual, this is what Paul was conveying.

1Co 1:17  For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not withwisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 
 

19 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Now, I agree that God does indeed immerse us in His Ruwach haQodesh - His Holy Spirit - for His Son's sake, but we should not neglect the OTHER SIDE OF THE SAME COIN, namely, that Yeeshuwa` said to baptize with water - IMMERSE them IN WATER, as well.

One fact is this, Christ did not use the word water in His commission to the apostles. He was going to ascend and send His Holy Spirit to back up His words. You are arguing for two baptisms when Paul clearly stated there is only one.

Eph 4:5  One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 

19 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

We baptize with water - not for the redemption itself - but because Yeeshuwa` TOLD us to do so and for a clean consciencce before Him.

 

Negative, what you are doing is keeping and old testimony for remission of sins “repent and be baptized in water for remission of sins“. If you want a clean conscience before God believe in the sacrifice of His son and that only His blood has the power cleanse man and if we believe in His resurrection we will have a clean conscience.

1Pe 3:20  Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 
1Pe 3:21  The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: 
1Pe 3:22  Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

How can one believe this is a reference to water baptism? The ark represents Christ who now is our salvation if we are in Him and Noah did not get wet. The ones that got wet were destroyed.

Heb 9:13  For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: 
Heb 9:14  How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 
Heb 9:15  And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 
Heb 9:16  For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 
Heb 9:17  For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. 

Water baptism prepared priests to recieve the sacrific and they were to kill it and apply the blood. 

Again, water baptism was not and is not a picture of salvation.