Guest Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 3 hours ago, BeyondET said: Multiple souls can dwell in one light, one spark. I'd like to see a scientific study regarding the soul. Can you provide a link? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeyondET Posted January 12, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 118 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,874 Content Per Day: 1.22 Reputation: 816 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/29/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/01/1968 Share Posted January 12, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said: I'd like to see a scientific study regarding the soul. Can you provide a link? There's no link on souls, current science standards doesn't even support how souls come about or even believe in it. You probably already know that? The Bible doesn't even cover how souls are created today or does it? Sure scripture says how wonderfully knitted in the womb but I don't think birth defects are wonderful. So imo the knitting is something else, hence the inmost being at first light spark. Though born into a corrupt world those things happen defects because of it. "Psalm 139:13, For You formed my inmost being; You knit me together in my mother’s womb." What would be your opinion on how a human having a soul and at what stage would it be joined with the vessel or if at all? Edited January 12, 2023 by BeyondET Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tristen Posted January 12, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 9 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,380 Content Per Day: 0.63 Reputation: 1,361 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/26/2014 Status: Online Share Posted January 12, 2023 Caveat - I haven't had a chance to read through the 6 pages of posts. I would say yes to the question posed in the OP. The cloning process usually needs a fertilized cell. I consider the fertilization/conception of a cell to be the starting point of a human life (or "soul"). Subsequently playing with the DNA of the cell is just information manipulation. It effects the ultimate physical manifestation, but not the spirit of the person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeyondET Posted January 12, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 118 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,874 Content Per Day: 1.22 Reputation: 816 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/29/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/01/1968 Share Posted January 12, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Tristen said: Caveat - I haven't had a chance to read through the 6 pages of posts. I would say yes to the question posed in the OP. The cloning process usually needs a fertilized cell. I consider the fertilization/conception of a cell to be the starting point of a human life (or "soul"). Subsequently playing with the DNA of the cell is just information manipulation. It effects the ultimate physical manifestation, but not the spirit of the person. Dolly took 277 tries to get the soup to start replicating for longer than a couple of days, a human has never been done and imo I don't think it's possible. Edited January 12, 2023 by BeyondET Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeyondET Posted January 12, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 118 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,874 Content Per Day: 1.22 Reputation: 816 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/29/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/01/1968 Share Posted January 12, 2023 (edited) In the case of dolly the clone sheep, the scientists didn't create life from scratch. The cell was suppressed from replicating basically kept in a coma state so they could add DNA. Then a jolt of electricity to wake it back up. Edited January 12, 2023 by BeyondET 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueFollowerOfChrist Posted January 12, 2023 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,052 Content Per Day: 1.60 Reputation: 598 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/26/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted January 12, 2023 15 hours ago, BeyondET said: It's really futile to even wonder about cloned humans. It took some 300 tries to produce dolly the clone sheep. The future will be robotic humans not clones. Robotic Humans? So I shouldn't name my son John Conner ? LOL 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueFollowerOfChrist Posted January 12, 2023 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,052 Content Per Day: 1.60 Reputation: 598 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/26/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted January 12, 2023 15 hours ago, Jayne said: You do realize that with identical twins, one is a clone in the purest sense of the word. Are you saying that only one twin out of each set is "real" and will have a chance to be saved? Does the other go to hell or a cosmic and universal trash can? This thread boggles my mind. I think y'all have been watching too much "Boys From Brazil". I don't believe that 1 twin is a clone. Did science show which one? I've seen twins, and neither looks like a clone. So I believe they both have souls and can go to Heaven if they want to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeyondET Posted January 12, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 118 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,874 Content Per Day: 1.22 Reputation: 816 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/29/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/01/1968 Share Posted January 12, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said: Robotic Humans? So I shouldn't name my son John Conner ? LOL Words of John Connor 1984 😆 Edited January 12, 2023 by BeyondET Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis1209 Posted January 12, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 350 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,508 Content Per Day: 2.70 Reputation: 5,408 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted January 12, 2023 6 hours ago, Tristen said: Caveat - I haven't had a chance to read through the 6 pages of posts. I would say yes to the question posed in the OP. The cloning process usually needs a fertilized cell. I consider the fertilization/conception of a cell to be the starting point of a human life (or "soul"). Subsequently playing with the DNA of the cell is just information manipulation. It effects the ultimate physical manifestation, but not the spirit of the person. Consider this Tristen, and I am interested in your opinion. I do not have the answers, but I believe it is critical in the definition of what a human soul and spirit is, pertaining to qualifications for redemption and Salvation. God breathed the breath of life into humanity, can it be lost? In Genesis the Bible is clear, each “kind” in the animal kingdom has both a soul and spirit suited for their kind. Kinds not to be confused with species of kinds. The topic of DNA additions, removal, splicing (genetic transhumanism) is no longer even debatable. As closely as human DNA is to the animal kingdom, the main question is, what does it mean to be 100% human. How much and what DNA manipulation before we cease to be human? The soul and spirit of say a dog, is instinctive, it has no reasoning, critical thinking, or higher creativity. As with the announced creation of genetically modified super-soldiers (transhumanism), what does that entail? To be as strong as an ox, see like an eagle, hear like an owl, need less food and sleep, and so forth. Where and how will they draw these characteristics from to create superman? If we are not as created, what are we, a genetically modified hybrid. If a human has modified DNA resulting in some of their attributes and abilities, it stands to reason part of their spirit and soul is also inherited. Whereas, the tampering with cloning and designer babies are not crossing the kind barrier. It says we humans can do better than what God gives us, we are not satisfied, we can be our own little gods. Just the thoughts of an old man with too much time on his hands… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 20 hours ago, BeyondET said: There's no link on souls, current science standards doesn't even support how souls come about or even believe in it. You probably already know that? The Bible doesn't even cover how souls are created today or does it? Sure scripture says how wonderfully knitted in the womb but I don't think birth defects are wonderful. So imo the knitting is something else, hence the inmost being at first light spark. Though born into a corrupt world those things happen defects because of it. "Psalm 139:13, For You formed my inmost being; You knit me together in my mother’s womb." What would be your opinion on how a human having a soul and at what stage would it be joined with the vessel or if at all? Matthew 12:18 - “Behold, my servant whom I have chosen, my beloved with whom my soul is well pleased. I will put my Spirit upon him, and he will proclaim justice to the Gentiles. 1 Thessalonian 5:23 - Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Hebrew - 4:12 - For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. [ESV] We know Paul, a Pharisee trained Jew well knowledgeable in Hebrew and Greek, speaks of soul and spirit as separate, but occupying the same body. God understood this as He explained and Matthew recorded. I expect the Jews who read this to fully understand not needing further explanation. From the Old Testament: 1 Samuel 1:15 - But Hannah answered, “No, my lord, I am a woman troubled in spirit. I have drunk neither wine nor strong drink, but I have been pouring out my soul before the LORD. Job 7:11 - “Therefore I will not restrain my mouth; I will speak in the anguish of my spirit; I will complain in the bitterness of my soul. Isaiah 26:9 - My soul yearns for you in the night; my spirit within me earnestly seeks you. For when your judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world learn righteousness. Isaiah 42:1 - Behold my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen, in whom my soul delights; I have put my Spirit upon him; he will bring forth justice to the nations. [ESV] The New Testament is a continuation of the Old Testament; a fulfillment of it. So both texts are valid when discussing soul and spirit. Where the scriptures are silent, science fills in the gap. Because science speaks ambiguously on the subject, no consensuses can be reached. Faith and science will always be at enmity with each other. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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