Man was in Pangaea

[RdJ]

The ark landed in the mountains of Ararat, which were formed when the Eurasian and Indian-Australian plate collided, so the continents had already shifted.

 

https://answersingenesis.org/geology/plate-tectonics/can-catastrophic-plate-tectonics-explain-flood-geology/

Edited March 27 by RdJ

[dad2]

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They are not mentioned, but it is mentioned that all the fountains of the great deep were opened up and there are mid oceanic ridges where plates drifted apart.

That does not mean that they moved when waters came up in the flood.

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Water under the crust was before the flood. Not afterwards, in the time of Peleg, because it all came out when all the fountains of the great deep opened and the world was flooded.

Yes water was under the surface before the flood. That has no connection to continents moving that we know about. You seem to be trying to use the water surfacing in the flood as the mechanism for rapid continental drift.

 

[RdJ]

14 hours ago, dad2 said:

That does not mean that they moved when waters came up in the flood.

Yes water was under the surface before the flood. That has no connection to continents moving that we know about. You seem to be trying to use the water surfacing in the flood as the mechanism for rapid continental drift.

I thought maybe those fountains were where the mid oceanic ridges are. No I thought you meant that. I saw that theory. Don't know if it's true, but if it is then it was before the flood. If not you have the same as now, only faster and I would assume that it's less dangerous if it's under water, because those mid oceanic ridges don't bother people either.

Edited March 28 by RdJ

[RdJ]

17 hours ago, dad2 said:

That does not mean that they moved when waters came up in the flood.

Yes water was under the surface before the flood. That has no connection to continents moving that we know about. You seem to be trying to use the water surfacing in the flood as the mechanism for rapid continental drift.

Interesting.

https://biblearchaeology.org/research/chronological-categories/flood-of-noah/2887-making-sense-of-the-days-of-peleg

 

These megalithic ruins demand to be placed within an historical context, so Hancock’s attempt is worthwhile. But he is handicapped in seeking an explanation because he has apparently ruled out examining them within a biblical framework. Yet even those who know their Bibles well find these structures a challenge to understand. They cannot be placed into an antediluvian timeframe (that is, before the Flood), since beneath them lay fossil-bearing sedimentary rocks that had previously been deposited by the waters of Noah’s universal Flood. Finding a satisfying post-Flood solution has been difficult as well. These structures, though widely scattered around the world, share features that indicate a common cultural origin; for example, stones weighing many tons were used, having very tight joints and often cut in asymmetrical shapes, and requiring unknown technology to move and place them. Such a common cultural origin seems unlikely if one holds the view that mankind dispersed from Babel (Gn 11:1–9) into a world where the Americas were already widely separated from Eurasia, creating formidible barriers to the free interchange of culture and ideas. It is no wonder Hancock considers these megalithic ruins a great mystery. A similar mystery is the presence of pyramids in Mesoamerica, not unlike those in Egypt.

 

They say Job lived during an Ice age.

Job 38

From whose womb comes the ice?
And the frost of heaven, who gives it birth?
30 The waters harden like stone,
And the surface of the deep is frozen.

 

 

Edited March 28 by RdJ

[RdJ]

https://saysthelord.wordpress.com/2009/12/14/pangea-how-god-split-the-continents/

The evolution position

If the evolutionary view is correct, it raises some interesting questions.  How did people get here (North America, Australia, Japan, Samoa, the Caribbean, Hawaii, etc) if they evolved after the split?  People did not evolve until 2 million years ago (I have heard several estimates, none later than that).  No one suggests that we all evolved separately and simultaneously since that idea would be extreme even to an evolutionist.  They didn’t sail to those places.  The explanation I had always been taught was that they walked to those places.  How did they walk if oceans and seas surround the continents?  People supposedly crossed the Bering Straight land bridge 15,000 years ago. The water there is a minimum of 50 feet deep.  They say the ice age caused the ocean levels to drop since the water was frozen and on top of the continents, thus exposing dry land for people and animals to walk across.  Sounds logical enough until you examine the details more closely (something we don’t often do).  Doing the math yielded some interesting results.  A 50 foot drop in the oceans would fill 1117 Lake Michigans!  That would equal 1,318,248 cubic miles of water.  The volume would increase by 8.7% when it is frozen resulting in 1,432,935 cubic miles of ice.  That much ice would cover all dry land on earth with 130 feet of ice!  Since the ice age was a northern hemisphere phenomenon, there would be about 200 feet of ice covering our world here in Wisconsin.  I find that hard to believe.  What natural phenomenon would cause that much ice to cover everything?  The July sun would never allow it.

Then, how would these people cross that area since it was covered with 200 feet of ice?  Evolutionists say that area remained unglaciated!  Warm Pacific winds kept that area dry, even though it was cold enough to create such a calamity?  It seems like these explanations are invented to make these unlikely scenarios feasible.  Why would ancient man go to such a barren place when the entire northern hemisphere was supposedly like the Arctic Circle?  Where would they find food? If the following animals did not evolve until after the continental split 95 million years ago, then how do they explain their presence in the New World: the American Lion, the American Rhinoceros, the American Cheetah, the Mastodon, the American Zebra, Camelops and the Cuban Ground Sloth?  As with man, they supposedly walked across the frozen desolate Bering Straight with no food in sight!  This to me seems very unfeasible.  As I mentioned before, either these animals evolved simultaneously in two different places or we are missing something.  By the way, remember I mentioned earlier that the ocean levels would have had to drop 50 feet minimum to create a land bridge to Russia?  Well, the ocean would have had to have dropped 500 feet to create a land bridge from Florida to Cuba.  A 500 foot drop would have created not 200 feet of ice on North America, but 2000!  Sloths do not swim! 

Pangea split during the Flood?

The second explanation is that the splitting of the earth occurred during the flood.  If this is true then the Christian just inherited all of the same problems associated with the evolutionary Pangea split.  How did Koala bears get from Turkey to Australia?  How did the people get here?  The common interpretation is that Genesis 10:25 is it is actually referring to the people of the earth when it says “the earth was divided”.  I looked up the word ‘earth’ in the Hebrew Old Testament.  It occurs 738 times.  It can refer to people.  Just to be curious, I read every verse that uses that word.  The word is overwhelmingly used to describe the planet.  Not one of the other occurrences in Genesis (86 other times) refers to people. 

[RdJ]

If the continents split after the flood, there must be some writing about it, just like the world wide flood stories.

https://answersingenesis.org/the-flood/flood-legends/flood-legends-americas-part-3/

The great civilizations of Mexico all knew about the flood. The Toltecs had historical paintings and traditions that told of an ancient flood, which they said occurred 1716 years after the creation of the world (this is within 100 years of the biblical timeframe). Only a few escaped the flood, floating inside a “toplipetlacali,” an enclosed vessel. After the flood, they said that “men multiplied and made a very high zacuali … which means the highest tower, at which they sought to find shelter when the Second World would be destroyed. In time, the languages were changed and, not understanding each other, the people went to different parts of the world.” They said they arrived in Mexico “520 years after the flood had passed, which are five ages.”

 

[dad2]

Quote

I thought maybe those fountains were where the mid oceanic ridges are.

You were guessing. No one knows. My guess is that the Yucatan crater may be a left over from one of them.

Quote

No I thought you meant that. I saw that theory. Don't know if it's true, but if it is then it was before the flood.

I wasn't thinking about or talking about water as a cause for the rapid plate separation.

Quote

If not you have the same as now, only faster and I would assume that it's less dangerous if it's under water, because those mid oceanic ridges don't bother people either.

If physical laws were not the same and thermodynamics, etc we would have no worries about as much heat being caused by friction of fast moving plates or etc etc.

[dad2]

Quote

Interesting.

https://biblearchaeology.org/research/chronological-categories/flood-of-noah/2887-making-sense-of-the-days-of-peleg

 

These megalithic ruins demand to be placed within an historical context, so Hancock’s attempt is worthwhile. But he is handicapped in seeking an explanation because he has apparently ruled out examining them within a biblical framework. Yet even those who know their Bibles well find these structures a challenge to understand. They cannot be placed into an antediluvian timeframe (that is, before the Flood), since beneath them lay fossil-bearing sedimentary rocks that had previously been deposited by the waters of Noah’s universal Flood.

I would see all these as post flood. Since laws and forces of physics were likely not the same as today, there may have also been some way to lessen gravity! (making the moving of huge blocks easy) Having some force balancing or somewhat cancelling gravity would also facilitate huge land masses moving easier.

Personally I believe that the planet itself was also somehow affected, resulting in a sudden change in the length of a year (used to be 360 days)

On the issue of sediment and fossils, there were plenty of those before the flood as well. Perhaps some areas where water arose from the deep tended to ebb and flow water and would be mistaken by modern science as tidal activity from seas...etc.

Quote

Finding a satisfying post-Flood solution has been difficult as well. These structures, though widely scattered around the world, share features that indicate a common cultural origin; for example, stones weighing many tons were used, having very tight joints and often cut in asymmetrical shapes, and requiring unknown technology to move and place them. Such a common cultural origin seems unlikely if one holds the view that mankind dispersed from Babel (Gn 11:1–9) into a world where the Americas were already widely separated from Eurasia, creating formidible barriers to the free interchange of culture and ideas. It is no wonder Hancock considers these megalithic ruins a great mystery. A similar mystery is the presence of pyramids in Mesoamerica, not unlike those in Egypt.

I agree. This explains similarities in architecture, customs etc. Not only normal dispersing, but the separation caused by continents moving apart.

Quote

They say Job lived during an Ice age.

Job 38

From whose womb comes the ice?
And the frost of heaven, who gives it birth?
30 The waters harden like stone,
And the surface of the deep is frozen.

Yes The place Job lived and the time he lived may have been closer to the time of the flood than assumed.

I have a way of dating it. We know men lived somewhere around 9 centuries and change before the flood. Going forward we see a huge change that is most notable and best explained on a graph happened around the time of Peleg and Babel. No one after Peleg lived more than something like 230 years or whatever it was. Excepting people born before Babel and Peleg. (Shem etc) Even with people like Shem, I think their lifespan was shorter than it would have been if no change happened in Peleg's day. Here is an illustration. If Noah lived 600 years before the flood and 450 years after that would be 950 years. That means only 350 after the flood. If Babel was something like 105 years after the flood, that would mean Noah only lived about 245 years after Babel. That was approx the average age in Peleg's time. If Shem was 98 or 99 years old in the flood year, that would mean he probably would have been about 103 or 104 years old when Babel happened . That would mean he lived about 500 years after Babel. We don't know when the earth was divided in Peleg's day. Let's assume for the sake of an example that it was 100 years after the time of Babel. Peleg would have been a little over a hundred years old. Shem would have been about 300 years old. (a hundred before the flood, a hundred years till Babel, and another hundred years after Babel) That would mean that Shem only would have lived after the dividing of the earth (I assume this was when a change in physics and nature happened) for about 300 years! That was above average. I assume that whatever change happened that caused men to live drastically shorter lifespans may have affected those born before the change, but not quite as much.

So, to the dating method point now- anyone that lived around the same as Peleg was something like 2 or 300 years post flood. Then we have Abraham and others dropping to 175 years, so that would be many decades later. (Jewish tradition has Abraham meeting Noah while Abraham was a child) So, we can use the lifespan of Peleg as a base to date people. Moses, for example was centuries later and he lived only 120 years...etc.

 

Job lived 140 years, so by this dating scheme, that was before Moses, and after Peleg, and after Abraham etc.

[dad2]

1 hour ago, RdJ said:

https://saysthelord.wordpress.com/2009/12/14/pangea-how-god-split-the-continents/

The evolution position

If the evolutionary view is correct, it raises some interesting questions.  How did people get here (North America, Australia, Japan, Samoa, the Caribbean, Hawaii, etc) if they evolved after the split?  People did not evolve until 2 million years ago (I have heard several estimates, none later than that).  No one suggests that we all evolved separately and simultaneously since that idea would be extreme even to an evolutionist.  They didn’t sail to those places.  The explanation I had always been taught was that they walked to those places.  How did they walk if oceans and seas surround the continents?  People supposedly crossed the Bering Straight land bridge 15,000 years ago. The water there is a minimum of 50 feet deep.  They say the ice age caused the ocean levels to drop since the water was frozen and on top of the continents, thus exposing dry land for people and animals to walk across.  Sounds logical enough until you examine the details more closely (something we don’t often do).  Doing the math yielded some interesting results.  A 50 foot drop in the oceans would fill 1117 Lake Michigans!  That would equal 1,318,248 cubic miles of water.  The volume would increase by 8.7% when it is frozen resulting in 1,432,935 cubic miles of ice.  That much ice would cover all dry land on earth with 130 feet of ice!  Since the ice age was a northern hemisphere phenomenon, there would be about 200 feet of ice covering our world here in Wisconsin.  I find that hard to believe.  What natural phenomenon would cause that much ice to cover everything?  The July sun would never allow it.

Then, how would these people cross that area since it was covered with 200 feet of ice?  Evolutionists say that area remained unglaciated!  Warm Pacific winds kept that area dry, even though it was cold enough to create such a calamity?  It seems like these explanations are invented to make these unlikely scenarios feasible.  Why would ancient man go to such a barren place when the entire northern hemisphere was supposedly like the Arctic Circle?  Where would they find food? If the following animals did not evolve until after the continental split 95 million years ago, then how do they explain their presence in the New World: the American Lion, the American Rhinoceros, the American Cheetah, the Mastodon, the American Zebra, Camelops and the Cuban Ground Sloth?  As with man, they supposedly walked across the frozen desolate Bering Straight with no food in sight!  This to me seems very unfeasible.  As I mentioned before, either these animals evolved simultaneously in two different places or we are missing something.  By the way, remember I mentioned earlier that the ocean levels would have had to drop 50 feet minimum to create a land bridge to Russia?  Well, the ocean would have had to have dropped 500 feet to create a land bridge from Florida to Cuba.  A 500 foot drop would have created not 200 feet of ice on North America, but 2000!  Sloths do not swim! 

Pangea split during the Flood?

The second explanation is that the splitting of the earth occurred during the flood.  If this is true then the Christian just inherited all of the same problems associated with the evolutionary Pangea split.  How did Koala bears get from Turkey to Australia?  How did the people get here?  The common interpretation is that Genesis 10:25 is it is actually referring to the people of the earth when it says “the earth was divided”.  I looked up the word ‘earth’ in the Hebrew Old Testament.  It occurs 738 times.  It can refer to people.  Just to be curious, I read every verse that uses that word.  The word is overwhelmingly used to describe the planet.  Not one of the other occurrences in Genesis (86 other times) refers to people. 

Occam's razor says that people living on rapidly moving continents is the simplest answer.

[dad2]

58 minutes ago, RdJ said:

If the continents split after the flood, there must be some writing about it, just like the world wide flood stories.

https://answersingenesis.org/the-flood/flood-legends/flood-legends-americas-part-3/

The great civilizations of Mexico all knew about the flood. The Toltecs had historical paintings and traditions that told of an ancient flood, which they said occurred 1716 years after the creation of the world (this is within 100 years of the biblical timeframe). Only a few escaped the flood, floating inside a “toplipetlacali,” an enclosed vessel. After the flood, they said that “men multiplied and made a very high zacuali … which means the highest tower, at which they sought to find shelter when the Second World would be destroyed. In time, the languages were changed and, not understanding each other, the people went to different parts of the world.” They said they arrived in Mexico “520 years after the flood had passed, which are five ages.”

 

No matter what continent men lived on they would have known about the flood. Once continents moved with the animals and people on them, there still were stories and legends of the great flood. There is also some similarities in pyramids.

 

Edited March 28 by dad2