truth7t7 Posted February 10, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,749 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 329 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/19/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 10, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said: I just don't see it. Other than the 1st verse mentioned in each of those passages, they don't look like the same thing to me. They appear to be talking about different things. We Strongly Disagree Isaiah Chapters 11 & 65 Is The Very Same Place, The Eternal Kingdom, In The New Heaven And Earth, Don't Be Deceived By Claims This Represents A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth Same Wolf & Lamb Together, And Lion Eating Straw Like The Bullock/Ox, In The Eternal Kingdom, In The New Heaven And Earth (For, Behold, I Create New Heavens And A New Earth) Isaiah 65:17-18 & 25KJV 17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. 18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy. 25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the Lord. Isaiah 11:6-7KJV 6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. 7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. Edited February 10, 2023 by truth7t7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth7t7 Posted February 10, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,749 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 329 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/19/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 10, 2023 (edited) 10 hours ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said: I see nothing in the verses themselves to suggest that anything there should be interpreted spiritually. A plain reading of the text demands a literal interpretation. You say offspring ( KJV ) but the other translation says descendants. Descendants is a very literal word. So there's no reason to take this passage as anything other than literal. It DOES say accursed, which can belong to Millennium but NOT to Eternal State. Is Paul speaking of "Literal" children below, or is he speaking of his "Spiritual"offspring that were saved during Paul's ministry? Hebrews 2:12-13KJV 12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee. 13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me. Edited February 10, 2023 by truth7t7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeGrace Posted February 10, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,434 Content Per Day: 8.23 Reputation: 610 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/07/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted February 10, 2023 11 hours ago, abcdef said: Literal, spiritual, symbolic. Which one fits the rod of iron? I don't try to defend what other say, but, Are you sure that everything in Rev 20 is literal? I would say that some is and some is not. ------ I will say this, 1 Cor 2:14, "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." Which means, that the things shown in prophecy, whether literal or symbolic, also have a spiritual meaning that shows it's relationship to the Spirit of God. So spiritualizing scriptures would be different from being literal or symbolic. Literal, "Jesus was a man who walked on this planet". Symbolic, Jesus is the "Lamb" of God. Spiritualizing, "Cain killed Able". The spirits involved in the act. So Rev 20 would contain all three. Would you point out what you take as "spiritual" in Rev 20? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcdef Posted February 10, 2023 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,405 Content Per Day: 0.93 Reputation: 135 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/19/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/14/1951 Share Posted February 10, 2023 3 hours ago, FreeGrace said: Would you point out what you take as "spiritual" in Rev 20? Thanks. Rev 20:1, "a great chain". The chain is not material. It is symbolic of a limit of power to attack the children of Israel. It binds the spirit of Satan. Rev 20:2, "the dragon", The dragon is not a literal dragon. It is symbolic of a nation, Rev 12:4, Dan 7:23-24. The dragon is the spirit Satan, in men. Rev 20:3, "the bottomless pit", the abyss. Not a literal material place. It is symbolic of the place of the dead spirits (separated from the living, not Hades). It applies to the spirit of the dragon nation (Rome). These examples are literal and symbolic, but have a spiritual dimension. ------ Jesus (literal), is a Lamb (symbolic), the Lamb is a sacrifice for sin (spiritual dimension, implication). ------ The rod of iron, is not a literal rod of iron, it is symbolic of the authority of Jesus, it's authority relates to the Holy Spirit of God's laws, the spirit of love, the soul. ---- Whether literal or symbolic, everything in the scriptures and letters have a spiritual dimension. To spiritualize is to recognize the spiritual implications of the entities and events shown, 1 Cor 2:14. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeGrace Posted February 10, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,434 Content Per Day: 8.23 Reputation: 610 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/07/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted February 10, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, abcdef said: FreeGrace said: Would you point out what you take as "spiritual" in Rev 20? Thanks. Rev 20:1, "a great chain". The chain is not material. It is symbolic of a limit of power to attack the children of Israel. It binds the spirit of Satan. There is no symbolism. An angel LITERALLY locked Satan in the Abyss, which is a LITERAL place. 1 hour ago, abcdef said: Rev 20:2, "the dragon", The dragon is not a literal dragon. It is symbolic of a nation, Rev 12:4, Dan 7:23-24. The dragon is the spirit Satan, in men. [double click failed. OK you got me. "dragon" is a metaphor for Satan, who is LITERAL fallen angel. So it's all STILL LITERAL.] Rev 20:3, "the bottomless pit", the abyss. Not a literal material place. It is symbolic of the place of the dead spirits (separated from the living, not Hades). It applies to the spirit of the dragon nation (Rome). We know it is a LITERAL place because Jesus talked about it in Luke 16 and Jude talked about angels in dungeons. LITERAL dungeons. 1 hour ago, abcdef said: These examples are literal and symbolic, but have a spiritual dimension. Jesus (literal), is a Lamb (symbolic), the Lamb is a sacrifice for sin (spiritual dimension, implication). The rod of iron, is not a literal rod of iron, it is symbolic of the authority of Jesus, it's authority relates to the Holy Spirit of God's laws, the spirit of love, the soul. [His RULE is still LITERAL. You simply cant get around that. All kings RULE, and Jesus is a LITERAL King.] Whether literal or symbolic, everything in the scriptures and letters have a spiritual dimension. To spiritualize is to recognize the spiritual implications of the entities and events shown, 1 Cor 2:14. None of this takes away the LITERALNESS of Jesus ruling as King for 1,000 years. I noticed you didn't touch the years. There is no such thing as "spiritual years". That is laughable. King Jesus will rule over the unbeliever survivors of the GT. At the end, there will be a LITERAL battle, called Gog and Magog. And there will be LITERAL fire from heaven to consume EVERY living unbeliever on earth. Then follows the GWT where King Jesus reigns. Edited February 10, 2023 by FreeGrace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcdef Posted February 11, 2023 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,405 Content Per Day: 0.93 Reputation: 135 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/19/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/14/1951 Share Posted February 11, 2023 5 hours ago, FreeGrace said: There is no symbolism. An angel LITERALLY locked Satan in the Abyss, which is a LITERAL place. Where is it then? 5 hours ago, FreeGrace said: We know it is a LITERAL place because Jesus talked about it in Luke 16 and Jude talked about angels in dungeons. LITERAL dungeons. Where are the dungeons? On planet earth? 5 hours ago, FreeGrace said: None of this takes away the LITERALNESS of Jesus ruling as King for 1,000 years. Jesus rules, literally. The symbol of His rule is the rod of Iron, not literal iron. 5 hours ago, FreeGrace said: I noticed you didn't touch the years. There is no such thing as "spiritual years". That is laughable. You noticed that. Since this thread is centered on the rod of iron, I didn't want to stray too far from that. Prophecy is like a tapestry, it has interwoven threads. 5 hours ago, FreeGrace said: King Jesus will rule over the unbeliever survivors of the GT. At the end, there will be a LITERAL battle, called Gog and Magog. And there will be LITERAL fire from heaven to consume EVERY living unbeliever on earth. Then follows the GWT where King Jesus reigns. I will start a thread on Rev 20. Please join me there. We can discuss the literal/symbolic/spiritual there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeGrace Posted February 11, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,434 Content Per Day: 8.23 Reputation: 610 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/07/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted February 11, 2023 13 hours ago, abcdef said: I said: " There is no symbolism. An angel LITERALLY locked Satan in the Abyss, which is a LITERAL place. " Where is it then? Jude mentions a place called Tartarus, where angels involved in Genesis 6 are incarcerated. But he didn't give location coordinates, so I don't know where it is. btw, what kind of question was that anyway? Why ask questions where the Bible does NOT give information? What was your point? 13 hours ago, abcdef said: Where are the dungeons? On planet earth? See above. 13 hours ago, abcdef said: Jesus rules, literally. The symbol of His rule is the rod of Iron, not literal iron. In ancient times, literal kings held onto literal scepters. But you can make up your own mind. The point is that Jesus reigns LITERALLY. 13 hours ago, abcdef said: You noticed that. Since this thread is centered on the rod of iron, I didn't want to stray too far from that. Prophecy is like a tapestry, it has interwoven threads. I will start a thread on Rev 20. Please join me there. We can discuss the literal/symbolic/spiritual there. I'll check it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted February 11, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,606 Content Per Day: 3.97 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted February 11, 2023 1 hour ago, FreeGrace said: Jude mentions a place called Tartarus If you read what Jude did, then you would know all the stuff the "modern church" has decide to keep us from. We have to educate ourselves into the world view of those we read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth7t7 Posted February 11, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,749 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 329 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/19/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 11, 2023 (edited) 21 hours ago, FreeGrace said: There is no symbolism. An angel LITERALLY locked Satan in the Abyss, which is a LITERAL place. We know it is a LITERAL place because Jesus talked about it in Luke 16 and Jude talked about angels in dungeons. LITERAL dungeons. God is now in the Iron and Locksmith business creating keys and chains? Does God have a personal account at Ace Hardware or Home Depot? The Key and Chain are "Symbolic", this is the very reason why your postings aren't taken seriously, "Way Out In Left Field" Revelation 20:1KJV 1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. Edited February 11, 2023 by truth7t7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeGrace Posted February 11, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,434 Content Per Day: 8.23 Reputation: 610 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/07/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted February 11, 2023 2 hours ago, truth7t7 said: God is now in the Iron and Locksmith business creating keys and chains? You are free to believe whatever you want to believe. 2 hours ago, truth7t7 said: Does God have a personal account at Ace Hardware or Home Depot? The Key and Chain are "Symbolic", this is the very reason why your postings aren't taken seriously, "Way Out In Left Field" Revelation 20:1KJV 1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. Are you calling John a liar? Seems so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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