Rev 20, literal, symbolic, spiritual.

[truth7t7]

14 minutes ago, abcdef said:

The truth is that we are moments away from the fire from heaven and not centuries.

There Is No Need To Answer Your 3 Questions, The Antichrist Will Be Revealed To The Church On Earth, Roughly 3.5 Years "Prior" To The Lord's Appearing

"Let No Man Deceive You By Any Means"

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3KJV

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Revelation 13:13-14KJV

13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

[abcdef]

3 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

There Is No Need To Answer Your 3 Questions,

You can't answer the 3 simple questions?

Because the answers contradict your beliefs about the timelines.

It is amazing, that you refuse to answer.

But that is ok, no pretribbers will answer them either.

The very FACT, that you will NOT, CANNOT answer those 3 simple questions should give you pause for thought, to reevaluate.

But go ahead, keep swimming in the river denial, you have lots of pretrib company.

 

3 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

The Antichrist Will Be Revealed To The Church On Earth, Roughly 3.5 Years "Prior" To The Lord's Appearing

"Let No Man Deceive You By Any Means"

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3KJV

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Revelation 13:13-14KJV

13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[truth7t7]

3 minutes ago, abcdef said:

But go ahead, keep swimming in the river denial, you have lots of pretrib company.

I'm not pre-trib as you falsely suggest

(The Antichrist) and (Two Witnesses) will be revealed to the church upon this earth, there will be a 3.5 year tribulation, Jesus returns in the heavens immediately after this tribulation in fire and final Judgement (The End)

[abcdef]

1 minute ago, truth7t7 said:

I'm not pre-trib as you falsely suggest

(The Antichrist) and (Two Witnesses) will be revealed to the church upon this earth, there will be a 3.5 year tribulation, Jesus returns in the heavens immediately after this tribulation in fire and final Judgement (The End)

I didn't say that you are pretrib, I said that you have lots of company in your beliefs.

You like many others who maintain that you are not pretrib, still follow the pretrib 7 year timeline as future, which I am trying to show you, is not valid, is not true.

Can you answer the 3 questions? Or will you keep avoiding them?

 

[truth7t7]

9 hours ago, abcdef said:

I didn't say that you are pretrib, I said that you have lots of company in your beliefs.

You like many others who maintain that you are not pretrib, still follow the pretrib 7 year timeline as future, which I am trying to show you, is not valid, is not true.

Can you answer the 3 questions? Or will you keep avoiding them?

 

The future great tribulation will be 3.5 years, not 7 years as you suggest

When the future (Man Of Sin) is revealed to the world, the 3.5 year clock starts ticking

I have no desire to participate in answering your 3 questions, make a claim or statement and support it with scripture, it's that simple

Jesus Is The Lord

Edited March 13, 2023 by truth7t7

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

On 2/10/2023 at 5:16 PM, abcdef said:

Jesus literally reigns over the Pentecost gospel kingdom. Then all human life on planet earth is ended by the fire from heaven, literally.

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The length of the reign is from the day of Pentecost until He comes for the gospel kingdom, yet to happen, soon. The 1000 years is symbolic.

The dragon is symbolic.

The chain is symbolic.

The label of Magog is symbolic.

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The deception of Magog is a spiritual deception.

The reign of the saints is a spiritual reign, over the souls of the gospel kingdom.

Can you prove that these things are symbolic? Scripture should always be taken literally unless the text makes it clear that a literal interpretation isn't possible. What is it about chapter 20 that makes you think its all Symbolic, because all those things could easily be real, and I do believe they are real. 

[abcdef]

15 hours ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

Can you prove that these things are symbolic?

Brother TFC,

Rev 20 is not totally symbolic nor is is totally literal. It has both symbolism and literal meanings.

The idea is to understand why things are symbolic and what meaning the symbols represent, and why some things are literal and what they are meant to express,

And the reasons why each subject is understood as symbolic or literal.

It is not the symbols themselves that is the subject, it is what the symbols represent, that is the subject.

A few examples of things symbolic,

Rev 20:1, The chain. What does a chain represent? A limitation in movement or activity.

Could the chain be literal? I have some doubt that a spirit would be limited by a material chain. (These symbols are sometimes seen in other passages that are parallel, but I won't list them now.)

Rev 20:2, The dragon. The dragon is identified in Rev 12:3-4, as having 7 heads and 10 horns. In parallel passages the dragon is shown to be a nation with the spirit of Satan against the children of Israel. A literal dragon? Somehow I doubt that a dinosaur could deceive nations Magog to attack and surround Jerusalem in Rev 20.

Rev 20:3, The seal. What does this seal represent? It is God's Word that Satan cannot deceive the nations into surrounding restored Jerusalem (1967), until the time has ended (1000 years).

Literal? What would a material seal do to a spirit? How would putting a "seal" on Satan, a mark or something on his being, prevent him from deceiving? A seal on a person would not stop them from acting the way they do. 

Rev 20:7, The 1000 yrs. The number 1000 in symbolism might be a complete time, a perfect time. Other times we see the number 1000 amplifying smaller numbers like the  144000 sealed, 12000 of each tribe, Rev 7.

Literal? Understanding the first resurrection of Rev to be Jesus in 33 AD, the 1000 yrs happens sometime between 33 AD and the second resurrection when restored Jerusalem is surrounded, followed by the fire from heaven. Satan is bound sometime between 33 AD and the restoration of Jerusalem to Israel in 1967.

Other symbols, Breadth of the earth (v 9), Magog (v 8), camp of the saints, the holy city,

I'm not going further on this because of the length of this post.

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Some things that are literal,

Rev 20:4-6, The first resurrection is literally Jesus in 33 AD. Jesus and the OT saints live and reign literally from heaven on literal thrones (not material thrones) over the new covenant gospel kingdom through the OT scriptures. 

The meaning is to give faith to believers, showing those that overcame are receiving their rewards.

Rev  20:2, Satan. Satan is very real, but he is a spirit. His spirit attacks the children of Israel. Not exclusively, but they are the lights through the scriptures to the world. His attacks come from men with his spirit that hates God and Israel. Satan needs bodies of men to attack Israel.

Rev 20:9, Fire from heaven. This is the last thing that happens on this planet. After this, heaven and earth fly away from the throne literally, Rev 20:11.

Not all symbolic, not all literal. A more detailed study of the events and entities shows the difference, as well as other parallel passages. 

 

15 hours ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

Scripture should always be taken literally unless the text makes it clear that a literal interpretation isn't possible.

The Bible is full  of symbolism and literal events, both. Study, details, and parallel passages make the difference.

 

15 hours ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

What is it about chapter 20 that makes you think its all Symbolic, because all those things could easily be real, and I do believe they are real. 

I  have found that many times, those who say literal, want to dismiss the symbolism, without examination.

Think about this, That even the literal events have a symbolic meaning.

The sacrifices, the drinking of wine and eating of the bread, the clothes worn by the high priest and the people, circumcision, the ark of the covenant, all are literal material entities and events that have symbolic meaning.

I have found that when it comes to Revelation, that suddenly some want to eliminate all symbolism, or most anyway.

[abcdef]

18 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

The future great tribulation will be 3.5 years, not 7 years as you suggest

I don't believe that the trib will be 3 1/2 years, it's 3 1/2 times, that is about 1900 years, from 70 AD until 1967.

I said that pretrib says that it is 7 years, of which they still debate it.

You say 3 1/2 years, which is still using the 7 year timeline, which is flawed.

 

18 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

When the future (Man Of Sin) is revealed to the world, the 3.5 year clock starts ticking

 

18 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

I have no desire to participate in answering your 3 questions, make a claim or statement and support it with scripture, it's that simple

Jesus Is The Lord

I will answer the questions for you, Rome, Rome, Rome.

And the only entity that fits that iron form from 63 BC until 1967 is Rome, in the form of Caesar through the Bishop of Rome, the image of the beast, continual.

There can be no other. We are so far in the future of these writings, that we can look back and more more clearly. It can only be Rome. From 63 BC onward until this very day, hating and attacking the children of Israel.

Did you pray to know the truth?

Does the statue of Dan 2 show the truth? All other timelines must agree with this simple statue.

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The doctrine that believes that the Antichrist has not been revealed yet is misguided. The Antichrist was revealed to Israel when Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed, then the people were scattered among the gentile nations, by 70 AD. They then knew that Rome was the iron nation of Dan 2.

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It means that the Antichrist has been revealed for 1900 years ish to those who hold the scriptures, the children of Israel.

Because of that fact, the doctrine that he hasn't been revealed yet is false.

It is designed to hide the Bishop of Rome from being the Antichrist.

The statue proves it, the iron is Rome, and it is continual.

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The 3 1/2 times is centuries and not 3 1/2 years.

From 70 AD when the Antichrist Caesar scattered the children of Israel unto the gentile nations,

Until 1967 when Jerusalem was restored and the iron/clay toes of the statue ended.

The times of the gentiles ended in 1967, see Lk 21:20-24, 24, and Rev 11:2.

(We only have a few moments left until the Dan 2 stone strikes and the fire from heaven Rev 20:9, they are parallel.)

 --

 

[truth7t7]

6 hours ago, abcdef said:

(We only have a few moments left until the Dan 2 stone strikes and the fire from heaven Rev 20:9

I Disagree

(The Man Of Sin/The Beast) will be revealed to the world, having power for 3.5 years, the (Two Witnesses) will be bringing plagues upon this literal world for 1260 days, same time frame in parallel teachings 

Much has yet to be revealed and take place, a few moments would be a big overstatement

Jesus Is The Lord

[abcdef]

On 3/14/2023 at 6:29 AM, truth7t7 said:

I Disagree

(The Man Of Sin/The Beast) will be revealed to the world, having power for 3.5 years, the (Two Witnesses) will be bringing plagues upon this literal world for 1260 days, same time frame in parallel teachings 

The times are symbolic and not literal.

The beast with 7 heads and 10 horns can only be Rome from 63 BC until 1967.

 

On 3/14/2023 at 6:29 AM, truth7t7 said:

 

Much has yet to be revealed and take place, a few moments would be a big overstatement

This is what your missing. Many of those things have already happened and we are at the 6th trumpet/vial for 20 years ish. 

The mistake has been not understanding the symbolism. The literalists have distorted the texts. 

See what it says in Rev 16:15, a warning that when the battle of Armageddon comes, then Jesus is coming for the kingdom and the fire from heaven.

An explanation of the symbols, their subjects, and their timing helps.

It's not the symbols themselves that are the subject, it is what the symbol represent, that is the subject. Magog for example.

On 3/14/2023 at 6:29 AM, truth7t7 said:

Jesus Is The Lord

Amen Brother.