Was the early church catholic?

[Vine Abider]

10 hours ago, Anne2 said:

The only thing that I think might be lacking is the Church in the East , the Orthodox.  Rome was only one Bishop of the historical Church. Ironically, the Eastern (catholic) church also split with Rome. That continues to this day. Is this history of the pilgrim Church found also among the rest of the Eastern bishops?

What Broadbent researched is the church gatherings that mainly went high up into the Alps from around 400 AD, to escape the Roman church.  This would predate the Eastern Orthodox branch I think.

[farouk]

2 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

What Broadbent researched is the church gatherings that mainly went high up into the Alps from around 400 AD, to escape the Roman church.  This would predate the Eastern Orthodox branch I think.

I think some of those to whom you refer would have been Waldensians.......

[Vine Abider]

4 minutes ago, farouk said:

I think some of those to whom you refer would have been Waldensians.......

Or by their more proper name, Vaudois. (since they actually predate Waldo)

[farouk]

3 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Or by their more proper name, Vaudois. (since they actually predate Waldo)

I think Broadbent's book dove-tails well with L. Verduin's The Reformers and Their Stepchildren.

Whereas Broadbent is particularly strong on the pilgrim character of the church in pre-Reformation times, Verdiun concentrates on post-Reformation churches.

[Retrobyter]

14 hours ago, Anne2 said:

Sorry but the New covenant scripture refutes this notion. The exception you speak of was not synagogues, but the new Sanhedrin established under the roman Emperor Vespasian after the destruction of the temple. The often used phrase "constintinian Christianity" could easily be applied to the Sanhedrin at Yavneh, which gave authority to one sect, the Pharisees concerning the religion of the Jew's. It was by the roman emperor that post temple Judaism prospered in power over Jew's and Judaism. The Roman Emperors were simply doing what they always did, discern which religions were not a threat to the empire, thus given legality, by approval. Evidently, the Pharisees convinced Rome, they alone were not the cause of the Revolt and violence against Rome.

I think this is when their "traditions of men" peculiar to the sect, became law, which they called oral. Could we not say the same of this as others do the Church? Who gave authority of law to their traditions? Moses or Rome?

That however was disproved with the bar kochba revolt years later when he was proclaimed Messiah and another revolt began. That is when they lost Jerusalem for good. 

All I hope is for some fairness and balance..

Shalom, Anne2.

I'm talking about the Diaspora after the Temple had been destroyed.  The Jews were forcefully relocated to different cities in the Roman Empire. The Christians who were largely Jewish were also relocated, but by choice having been warned by an angel ahead of time.

[Anne2]

11 hours ago, farouk said:

@Anne2 BTW, your phraseology is interesting; do you know of the book by E H Broadbent, 'the Pilgrim Church'?

Hello Farouk,

No, I just looked it up, and watched a video. It appears This tracing may not go back to the eastern Church. That is why I asked the question.

[Anne2]

11 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

What Broadbent researched is the church gatherings that mainly went high up into the Alps from around 400 AD, to escape the Roman church.  This would predate the Eastern Orthodox branch I think.

Ok, thanks. That was is my impression from what I looked up, but was not absolutely sure. The eastern Church was also outside of that. For some of the same (not all) reasons. The immaculate conception, authority of the Roman bishop etc. While there are differences in Orthodoxy, Greek, Egyptian etc, there has been no likeness to a reformation among them. But schism with the Roman bishop. Rome, and it's authority was a factor. The western Church therefore never knew the "Church in the same framework as the ancient Eastern Churches.

Edited April 9, 2023 by Anne2

[Anne2]

11 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

What Broadbent researched is the church gatherings that mainly went high up into the Alps from around 400 AD, to escape the Roman church.  This would predate the Eastern Orthodox branch I think.

No, this is third century and 5 Major areas with it's bishops  mainly. Rome, Antioch, Alexandria, Jerusalem, Constantinople (Greece). All one Church back then.

[Vine Abider]

3 hours ago, Anne2 said:

No, this is third century and 5 Major areas with it's bishops  mainly. Rome, Antioch, Alexandria, Jerusalem, Constantinople (Greece). All one Church back then.

You may be right, that is, The Pilgrim Church that Broadbent researched was keen to leave the practices of the Roman church and anything that added the traditions of men.

[Anne2]

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

You may be right, that is, The Pilgrim Church that Broadbent researched was keen to leave the practices of the Roman church and anything that added the traditions of men.

Well, there are certain differences, but they spilt because of some of the issues Protestants split. I am pretty sure these are some main ones, reading their posts on other forums.

Transubstantiation, immaculate conception, and Roman bishops authority (instead of equals).