Are carnal Christian’s saved?

[FreeGrace]

11 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

I understand that you could not produce not one single verse of scripture that says those who are “born of God” keep on sinning.

And I explained WHY this kind of questioning is merely a RUSE, a dodge and smokescreen to defend an unbiblical teaching.

However, chew on this verse.

1 John 2:1 - My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.

Now, I fully expect you'll just dodge this very clear verse, where the beloved apostle makes is very clear about believers sinning.

Further, I suggested you read Romans 6 and 7 and Gal 5:17 to SEE what Paul said on the subject of believers sinning.  He himself STRUGGLED with his own sin nature.  Burt you simply reject or ignore that FACT.

So, no, there is no verse that "says" that saved people keep on sinning, but the evidence is more than clear.

And 1 John 1:8 and 10 directly applies to ANYONE who claims they don't sin.

So there's that.

11 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

So YOU do not get to dictate what is, and what is not written.😉

I just gave you (again) the FACTS about believers sinning.  And the FACT about anyone who claims they don't sin.  Not a pretty picture.

So your smugness is unearned.

[FreeGrace]

11 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

JimmyB said: 

Here is what the apostle John wrote to Christians...

1 John 1:8-10, "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us."

Yes, 1John1:8 means “for all have sinned”

Well, here is the problem.  One huge glaring problem.  You aren't even reading verses correctly.  v.8 doesn't say "for all have sinned".  That is found in Rom 3:23.  John wrote that those who "claim to be without sin" (which is YOU) have "deceived themselves" and "the truth is NOT in YOU".  

The ONLY WAY for you to have and defend your claim is to misread the Bible.  There is NO other way.

11 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

It is not an excuse for ongoing sin, neither does it suggest that born again Christians keep on sinning.

Those who claim to be without sin have deceived themselves.  That MEANS that they continue to sin.  But since you misread Scripture so badly, of course you won't face the FACT of what the verse actually says.

Since you won't deal with the clarity of Scripture, there is no reason to have a discussion with you.  You are free to your own fantasies.

[Stewardofthemystery]

33 minutes ago, SaraJane said:

 

.I don’t think that old man nature will ever leave us ,not until we are reunited back to God...we are being made into the image of Jesus, Through the power of the Holy Spirit, who resides in our heart /Spirit .

That is where I disagree with many. When we are born again that old carnal Adam sin nature is supposed to be crucified (put to death)with Christ.  Meaning that carnal sin nature has “died.”

Romans 6:6

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified (put to death)with him, that ((the body of sin might be destroyed, )) that henceforth we should not serve sin.”

 

So if someone is still sinning (serving sin) then that old carnal man has not been put to death, or destroyed.

[FreeGrace]

29 minutes ago, SaraJane said:

 

1 John 3:9

King James Version

⁹ Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

This verse addresses the "born again" new nature believers receive when they trust in Jesus Christ for salvation.  2 Cor 5:17 says believers are "new creatures".  That means they have a new nature, but have NOT lost their human sinful nature.  That is why Paul wrote Gal 5:17 -  For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want.

We know the Holy Spirit indwells believers.  He dwells in the new nature, the nature that cannot sin.  But Gal 5:17 shows clearly that there is a struggle for the believer.

And Paul described his own struggle with his human sinful nature in Romans 7.

29 minutes ago, SaraJane said:

Check out my post above regarding our old man nature.

No thank you.

[FreeGrace]

9 minutes ago, SaraJane said:

I’ve already posted my response ..

No thanks did you say...what a shame...you may have learnt something.😉

No one is beyond correction , including you.

reading your posts, will give you some advice.

Humble yourself before the Lord...😉

What is your point?  If you disagree with what I post, let me know WHY you disagree, and use Scripture that refutes what I post.  That's how these discussions/debates are supposed to go.  Which is what I do with SOTM and his claims.

I would appreciate correction very much if my views do not line up with Scripture.  I would consider it a favor.

Thanks.

[Stewardofthemystery]

14 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

So, no, there is no verse that "says" that saved people keep on sinning, but the evidence is more than clear.

 

I just gave you (again) the FACTS about believers sinning.  And the FACT about anyone who claims they don't sin.  Not a pretty picture.

So your smugness is unearned.

So you have no verses that support your view that those who are “born of God” keep on sinning.  But yet you say the evidence is more than clear???? Lol
 

If you can’t prove your doctrine by the words of God, then it is just “the doctrines of men.”

Here is my evidence based on the words of God.

You will know a tree by his fruit, either good or evil.

Matthew 7:18

A good tree “cannot”bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

 

Those “who sin”are not of God, but of the Devil

 

1 John 3:8

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

 

1 John 3:10

In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: (((whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, )))neither he that loveth not his brother.

 

Those who are born again of the Spirit do not sin.

1 John 3:9

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 John 5:18

We know that whosoever is born of Godsinneth not; but he that is begotten of Godkeepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

 

1 John 3:6

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.”

 

A good tree “cannot” bear evil fruit!

 

That is the TRUTH according to the words of God!

[Stewardofthemystery]

23 minutes ago, SaraJane said:

@Stewardofthemystery

 

its not the Spirit that wants to sin...it’s our flesh, we still have that old man to deal with...

We have been birthed in the spirit....yet we still have that old man nature...sin gets less and less as we learn to walk in the Spirit...but, we will never truly be free from our sin ,old man...hope that makes sense.

just my thoughts  and belief.

Again that old man is supposed to be put to death ( crucified) with Christ.

Romans 6:6

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified (put to death)with him, that ((the body of sin might be destroyed, )) that henceforth we should not serve sin.”

 

Also “the flesh,”along with that sin nature is supposed to be put to death (crucified) with Christ.

 

Galatians 5:24

And they that are Christ's have crucified “the flesh”with the affections and lusts.

 

If you are born again of the Spirit of Christ, you are NO LONGER “IN THE FLESH!”

 

Romans 8:9

But ye are not “in the flesh,”but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

 

 

 

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

2 minutes ago, SaraJane said:

Yes, we are in the Spirit.

Did you know how to walk in the Spirit as soon as you became Born Again?

Did your old man/ sin Nature, suddenly disappear when you became Born Again?

You are in Christ, you have received that new heart and Spirit.....the Holy Spirit is at work within you and only he can bring you to the truth of God’s Living word.

I wish you well on your journey with the Lord through the Spirit..God Bless You.🙏

Yes, I was made a new man in Christ when I received the anointing of the Holy Spirit.  I have also received the Testimony of Jesus Christ, as I was not taught by men, but by Christ.

Many have been deceived into thinking that you are still in the old carnal Adam sin nature while at the same time being in the Divine nature of Christ.  This is a false teaching!

Hopefully the Lord will reveal this Truth to you. Peace

[JimmyB]

12 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

Yes, 1John1:8 means “for all have sinned” It is not an excuse for ongoing sin, neither does it suggest that born again Christians keep on sinning.

Of course it is not an excuse for ongoing sin, but it does say that born again Christians will continue to sin.  Nobody, born again Christian or not, will not sin; there was only one person who never sinned: Jesus Christ.

Do you claim to be sinless?  Have you never sinned since you became a Christian?

[JimmyB]

1 hour ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

So you have no verses that support your view that those who are “born of God” keep on sinning.  But yet you say the evidence is more than clear???? Lol
 

If you can’t prove your doctrine by the words of God, then it is just “the doctrines of men.”

Here is my evidence based on the words of God.

 

You will know a tree by his fruit, either good or evil.

Matthew 7:18

A good tree “cannot”bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

 

Those “who sin”are not of God, but of the Devil

 

1 John 3:8

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

 

1 John 3:10

In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: (((whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, )))neither he that loveth not his brother.

 

Those who are born again of the Spirit do not sin.

1 John 3:9

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 John 5:18

We know that whosoever is born of Godsinneth not; but he that is begotten of Godkeepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

 

1 John 3:6

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.”

 

A good tree “cannot” bear evil fruit!

 

That is the TRUTH according to the words of God!

It proves nothing to take isolated verses out of order to prove a point.  Following your reasoning, if a person sins even once then s/he is not a born-again child of God.

1 John 3:4-6 (in English!):  Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him."

This clearly states that no Christian continues to sin, but that s/he will sin on occasion because nobody lives perfectly.  We are no longer controlled by the sin nature, but neither are we perfectly sinless.

"If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us." 1 John 1:8-10

THAT is the TRUTH according to the word of God!

Edited July 28, 2023 by JimmyB