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Are carnal Christian’s saved?


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32 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Please show me a verse that says this.  I don't believe it.

 

Luke 6:43-45

King James Version

43 For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

44 For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.

45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.”

A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth goodfruit.
 
Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruitcorrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
 
 
 
 
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42 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

So then, apparently you do not believe what Jesus taught!!  

You need to look at ALL the words of God, not just the ones you like to cherry pick.

Jesus, the prophets and the apostles warned of a “falling away from the faith.”

Here are a few verses confirming the prophecy of the falling away from the faith….

1 Timothy 4:1 “Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall “depart from the faith,”giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Matthew 7:26-27 “And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and “it fell:”and great was the fall of it.”

Matthew 15:14 “Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall “fall”into the ditch.”

Luke 6:39 “And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both “fall” into the ditch?

1 Corinthians 10:12 “Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he “fall.”

1 Timothy 3:6 “Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride “he fall”into the condemnation of the devil.

1 Timothy 3:7 “Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest “he fall”into reproach and the snare of the devil.

1 Timothy 6:9 “But they that will be rich “fall into temptation”and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.”

Hebrews 4:11 “Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man “fall” after the same example of unbelief.”

Hebrews 6:4-8 “For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall “fall away,”to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.”

Hebrews 10:38 “Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man “draw back,” my soul shall have no pleasure in him.”

Hebrews 10:39
But we are not of them who “draw back”unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

Acts 7:38-39 “ This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:39 To whom our fathers would not obey, but thrust him from them, and in their hearts “turned back”again into Egypt,”

Luke 9:62 “And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and “looking back,” is fit for the kingdom of God.”

Luke 17:32-33 “Remember Lot's wife.33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.”

Genesis 19:26 “But his wife “looked back”from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.”

Luke 8:13 “They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation “fall away.”

2 Peter 1:10 “Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, “ye shall never fall:”

2 Peter 3:17 “Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, “fall from”your own stedfastness.”

Revelation 2:5 “Remember therefore from whence thou art “fallen,”and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.”

Ezekiel 18:24 But when the righteous “turneth away”from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

Ezekiel 18:26 When a righteous man “turneth away”from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

Ezekiel 33:12 Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.

Ezekiel 33:18 “When the righteous “turneth from”his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby.”

2 Peter 2:20-22

King James Version

20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, “to turn”from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is “turned to his own vomit again”; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.”

Matthew 12:43-45

King James Version

43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.

44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.

45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and “the last state of that man is worse than the first.”Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.”

The warnings are clear for those who do not ignore them.

 

Edited by Stewardofthemystery
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44 minutes ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

When they fall away from the faith and return back to a life of sin, their “fruit withers”being seperated from the life of the Vine, and they are now “twice dead”.

These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; “trees whose fruit withereth,” without fruit, “twice dead,”plucked up by the roots;

You seem to be missing or avoiding the specific question - can children of God be unborn and would that make any sense? (remember, He gave His life/Spirit to us and He did the birthing)

Here's a verse I think has been quoted a bit on this thread (1 John 3:9):

No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

That which is born of God (spirit) does not continue or keep practicing sin. This is referring to the ongoing practice of sin, which they had before, right?  That is, we're saints who sometimes sin, but we don't make a practice of it.

And then it says "God's seed remains in them." The Greek for "seed" is "sperma." Do you think God, once His eternal life creates a whole new thing (a born again Christian) that they can ever be unborn!?  No, the one birthed of eternal life cannot be unborn.  Once we're made His children by His seed (sperma) in us, that's it!  There's no unbirthing according to God's economy.

There is accountability for His offspring (aka Christ's brethren), but no discipline unto death. 

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2 hours ago, SaraJane said:

Sound Doctrine.

 

Do Born Again Christians Have a Sinful Nature?

Jesus said, “If a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand.” Mark 3:25

   Do born again Christians have a sinful nature? Absolutely not!  The Bible is very straightforward on this.  Yet many Christians mistakenly think they have two natures within them, a new nature and a sin nature, which war against each other.  They believe that their new nature loves God and wants to practice righteousness but that their old sinful nature loves sin and wants to practice lawlessness.  They think that their Christian life reflects whichever of their two natures they yield themselves to the most. This lie is one of the greatest deceptions the devil has “sold” to the church and many Christians have bought this lie.  Tragically, these Christians are then overcome by sin because they do not understand or believe   the truth about Christ’s triumph on the cross.

   Jesus Christ said if you know the truth of His Word, He will free you from slavery to sin (John 8:31-36).  With this in mind, let us look at three Scriptures that plainly state we no longer have a sinful nature after we are born of the Spirit.  Here is the first one: “We know that our old self was crucified with Him in order that our body of sin (our sinful nature) might be removed so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; for he who has died has been freed from sin (Romans 6:6-7).”  Here is the second one: “You are not in the flesh (the sinful nature) but inthe Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you (Romans 8:9).  And here is the third one: “In Him you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of flesh (the sinful nature), by the circumcision of Christ (Colossians 2:11).”  In all three verses, the apostle Paul teaches that we no longer have a sinful nature after we are born again of God’s Spirit.

   The Bible contains two powerful pictures to show us that our sinful nature was removed from us when we were born again.  Circumcision was the seal of righteousness in the Old Covenant. In circumcision, the foreskin was removed. Paul taught that this portrayed that our sinful nature was removed from us in Christ (Colossians 2:11). Water baptism is a seal of righteousness in the New Covenant.  In baptism, the old man is given a water “burial.” Again Paul taught that this portrayed that our sinful nature was removed from us in Christ (Romans 6:3-6).  Thus both the Old Covenant and New Covenant clearly portray what happened to our sinful nature when we were born again.  Our sinful nature died and God completely removed it from our being.

   This is what Paul called the mystery of the gospel (Colossians 1:27).  How could Christ, who is God’s Holy One, spiritually live in a people who were born with a sinful nature?  God solved this dilemma by performing a divine heart transplant so that we would be born again.  When Christ died on the cross, He not only bore our sins on the cross; He also bore our sinful nature on the cross with Him.  Therefore, when Christ died, God exchanged our terminally sin-sick heart with His Son’s divine heart to deliver us from the power of sin and death (2 Corinthians 13:5; Galatians 4:6).  This divine operation of the cross, by which God removed our sinful nature and replaced it with Christ’s nature, is the promise of the New Covenant, the purpose of Christ’s Atonement and the power of Christ’s gospel. It was also foretold by the Old Testament prophets: “I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove your heart of stone from your flesh (Ezekiel 36:26-27; see also Jeremiah 31:31-33).”

   Some Christians are confused when they read Romans Chapter 7, and think perhaps the person described in this passage is a Christian.  But Paul wrote this particular chapter to his fellow Jews (see Romans 7:1) to convince them that in Christ, they died not only to sin; they also died to the Mosaic Law.  Paul describes the frustration and anguish of a person who is not yet born again and wants to obey God but who cannot do so because of his sinful nature.  That person finally cries out, “I am a wretched man!  Who will set me free from this body of death (this sinful nature)? (Romans 7:24)”  Paul then provides the answer based on his own personal experience, “Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! (Romans 7:25)” God knew that man’s sinful nature was his Achilles heel, which Satan would use to continually snare him in sin.  This is why the Old Covenant could not accomplish God’s eternal purpose since man’s sinful nature prevented   him from truly obeying God’s commandments.  Therefore, what the Law was powerless to do because of our sinful nature; God did in the New Covenant by sending His Son who perfectly fulfilled the Law and then become sin on our behalf so that we might become the righteousness of God in Christ (Romans 8:3; 2 Corinthians 5:21).

   When God completed His divine heart transplant, He did not leave us with two natures.  If God had left a sinful nature in us, we would be divided in heart and mind.  We could never stand up to Satan’s attacks and accusations.  If we still had a sinful nature, the devil would always have a spiritual foothold of sin within us to defeat us.  This would have been a woefully incomplete and pitiful salvation. But thank God that Christ’s death on the cross has given us complete victory over sin!  By the cross, God delivered us not only from the penalty of sin; He also delivered us from the power of sin by destroying and removing our sinful nature.  We are now a holy new creation in Christ.  But if our sinful nature is dead and gone, then why do we still sin?  Because our spiritual mind needs to be renewed and transformed by God’s Word to the point that we act on the truth that we have died and been freed from sin (Romans 12:2; Ephesians 4:23).  This is the whole gospel that Paul practiced: “I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me; and the life I now live in the body I live by faith in the Son of God (Galatians 2:20).”

“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!” 2 Corinth 5:17

 

23 minutes ago, SaraJane said:

I’m sure I said it was from an online source.

I copied it above - no attribution.  Please go back and do so as all material quoted on this forum must have a specific citation due to copyright issues.  Thanks!

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3 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

I already gave another member the chance to quote the scriptures that say “a born again Christian will continue in sin” as you suggested above.

So by all means post the scriptures that say this.  I will be waiting….

 

Don't wait any longer.  This is what John wrote to "born again" Christians (an oxymoron): " If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us." 1 John 1:9-10

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3 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:
Those who sin are of the Devil…
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
 
Those who are born again of God do not sin….
 
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
We know that whosoever is born of Godsinneth not; but he that is begotten of Godkeepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
 

1 John 3:5-6

King James Version

5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.”

In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.”
 
God’s words of Truth do not lie or contradict.

 

Read my previous post.  God’s words of truth do not lie or contradict.

Edited by JimmyB
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1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

You seem to be missing or avoiding the specific question - can children of God be unborn and would that make any sense? (remember, He gave His life/Spirit to us and He did the birthing)

Here's a verse I think has been quoted a bit on this thread (1 John 3:9):

No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

That which is born of God (spirit) does not continue or keep practicing sin. This is referring to the ongoing practice of sin, which they had before, right?  That is, we're saints who sometimes sin, but we don't make a practice of it.

And then it says "God's seed remains in them." The Greek for "seed" is "sperma." Do you think God, once His eternal life creates a whole new thing (a born again Christian) that they can ever be unborn!?  No, the one birthed of eternal life cannot be unborn.  Once we're made His children by His seed (sperma) in us, that's it!  There's no unbirthing according to God's economy.

There is accountability for His offspring (aka Christ's brethren), but no discipline unto death. 

I keeping answering your questions, but you and others just don’t WANT to hear what the words of God plainly teach.

Yes! The Holy Spirit can depart, be quenched, put out, extinguished if one falls away from the faith back into sin.

Quench not the Spirit.
 
Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
 
And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
 

Hebrews 10:26-31

King James Version

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

 

2 Peter 2:20-22

King James Version

20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, “to turn”from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is “turned to his own vomit again”; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.”


Hebrews 6:4-8 “For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall “fall away,”to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an openshame.
7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.”=DESTRUCTION

I could post many many more verses of scripture but it is not what YOU and others WANT TO HEAR.

Believe what you WANT, but I have warned you all.  My hands are clean of your blood.

 
 
 
 
 
 

 

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3 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

When they fall away from the faith and return back to a life of sin, their “fruit withers”being seperated from the life of the Vine, and they are now “twice dead”.

These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; “trees whose fruit withereth,” without fruit, “twice dead,”plucked up by the roots;

This verse is not about Christians. Jude 1:4, "For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

Try reading what the Bible actually says instead of giving a wrong interpretation.  You need to look at ALL the words of God, not just the ones you like to cherry pick.

Edited by JimmyB
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2 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

Luke 6:43-45

King James Version

43 For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

44 For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.

45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.”

A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth goodfruit.
 
Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruitcorrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
 
 
 
 

To whom were the gospels written?  Hint: not to Christians.

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2 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

You need to look at ALL the words of God, not just the ones you like to cherry pick.

Jesus, the prophets and the apostles warned of a “falling away from the faith.”

Here are a few verses confirming the prophecy of the falling away from the faith….

1 Timothy 4:1 “Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall “depart from the faith,”giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Matthew 7:26-27 “And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and “it fell:”and great was the fall of it.”

Matthew 15:14 “Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall “fall”into the ditch.”

Luke 6:39 “And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both “fall” into the ditch?

1 Corinthians 10:12 “Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he “fall.”

1 Timothy 3:6 “Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride “he fall”into the condemnation of the devil.

1 Timothy 3:7 “Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest “he fall”into reproach and the snare of the devil.

1 Timothy 6:9 “But they that will be rich “fall into temptation”and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.”

Hebrews 4:11 “Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man “fall” after the same example of unbelief.”

Hebrews 6:4-8 “For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall “fall away,”to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.”

Hebrews 10:38 “Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man “draw back,” my soul shall have no pleasure in him.”

Hebrews 10:39
But we are not of them who “draw back”unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

Acts 7:38-39 “ This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:39 To whom our fathers would not obey, but thrust him from them, and in their hearts “turned back”again into Egypt,”

Luke 9:62 “And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and “looking back,” is fit for the kingdom of God.”

Luke 17:32-33 “Remember Lot's wife.33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.”

Genesis 19:26 “But his wife “looked back”from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.”

Luke 8:13 “They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation “fall away.”

2 Peter 1:10 “Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, “ye shall never fall:”

2 Peter 3:17 “Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, “fall from”your own stedfastness.”

Revelation 2:5 “Remember therefore from whence thou art “fallen,”and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.”

Ezekiel 18:24 But when the righteous “turneth away”from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

Ezekiel 18:26 When a righteous man “turneth away”from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

Ezekiel 33:12 Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.

Ezekiel 33:18 “When the righteous “turneth from”his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby.”

2 Peter 2:20-22

King James Version

20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, “to turn”from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is “turned to his own vomit again”; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.”

Matthew 12:43-45

King James Version

43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.

44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.

45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and “the last state of that man is worse than the first.”Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.”

The warnings are clear for those who do not ignore them.

 

Did you pick these verses at random, because you're jumping all over the place.

Try reading what the Bible actually says instead of giving a wrong interpretation.  You need to look at ALL the words of God, not just the ones you like to cherry pick.

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