Are carnal Christian’s saved?

[Vine Abider]

9 minutes ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

I keeping answering your questions, but you and others just don’t WANT to hear what the words of God plainly teach.

Yes! The Holy Spirit can depart, be quenched, put out, extinguished if one falls away from the faith back into sin.

1 Thessalonians 5:19

Quench not the Spirit.

 

Revelation 2:5

Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

 

Luke 3:9

And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

John 15:6

If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

 

Hebrews 10:26-31

King James Version

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

 

2 Peter 2:20-22

King James Version

20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, “to turn”from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is “turned to his own vomit again”; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.”

 

Hebrews 6:4-8 “For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall “fall away,”to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an openshame.
7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.”=DESTRUCTION

I could post many many more verses of scripture but it is not what YOU and others WANT TO HEAR.

Believe what you WANT, but I have warned you all.  My hands are clean of your blood.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You did not respond to any specifics in my post, even though you say you have.  I've participated in numerous discussions on this topic - no one is convinced of the other it seems.  Verses fly back and forth, but it appears to be futile . . .

Let the Holy Spirit speak to us as He will:  I pray the Lord will open my eyes if need be on this matter.  May you be open to seek Him for the same.

As said before, I don't think this is a core or essential item of the faith . . . so peace!

[FreeGrace]

3 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

Luke 6:43-45

King James Version

43 For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

44 For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.

45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.”

Matthew 7:18

A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth goodfruit.

 

Matthew 12:33

Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruitcorrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.

None of these verses help you.  As one who claims he is without sin, has sinned by that claim.  Unless you don't believe that 'making God out to be a LIAR' is a sin.

But, of course, making God out to be a LIAR certainly IS a sin.

So you have proven by your claims that you are a sinner.  Whether you understand that or not.

[FreeGrace]

3 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

FreeGrace said: 

So then, apparently you do not believe what Jesus taught!! 

You need to look at ALL the words of God, not just the ones you like to cherry pick.

Apparently you do not even realize that your words demonstrate how much YOU yourself cherry pick verses.  I've given you straight forward verses that SHOW that you ARE a sinner by what you claim about being 'without sin', but you bypass them, which is a negative form of cherry picking.

Jesus was real clear;  those who believe in Him are given eternal life.  And John 10:28 says that recipients of eternal life shall never perish.  

Why don't you believe THAT verse?

3 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

Jesus, the prophets and the apostles warned of a “falling away from the faith.”

Yes, they did.  Now, go ahead and cherry pick any of those warning verses that clearly show that "falling from the faith" results in losing salvation.

3 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

Here are a few verses confirming the prophecy of the falling away from the faith….

Of course the Bible prophesies about fallingh away from the faith.  I've never denied that.  What I deny is your claim that salvation can be lost.

3 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

The warnings are clear for those who do not ignore them.

OK, 35 verses on falling from the faith.  Now, go ahead and cherry pick the most clear verse that says one will lose salvation if they fall away.

With such a wide array of verses, that shouldn't be too difficult, if you are correct.

[FreeGrace]

3 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

You need to look at ALL the words of God, not just the ones you like to cherry pick.

lol.  How many verses do you think are required to prove a doctrine or point?

Just ONE verse that clearly makes a point is legit.  

Your comment suggests that there are other verses that say the opposite of the 2 verses I quoted that prove eternal security.  Is that your view?  That the Bible talks out of both sides of its mouth?

[NConly]

9 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

Sure I understand context, but false prophets are not the “good trees” that “cannot” bear evil fruit as Jesus said.

 

Matthew 7:18

A good tree “cannot”bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.”

 

Since you don’t know who the “good trees” are that “cannot” bear evil fruit, I will give you the answer.

 

Isaiah 61:3

To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that ((((they might be called trees of righteousness,))the planting of the Lord, that he might be glorified.

 

Now if God “makes” a tree to be “righteous” it “cannot” bear evil fruit ( sin)

 

 

can explain this verse please. Sound like one started believing and had trouble quiting sin and then God steps in to help.

1 Peter 5:10

But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

Edited July 29, 2023 by NConly
correction

[Marathoner]

Let's keep in mind Worthy's ToS in our responses to each other. There's nothing wrong with disagreement among brethren, but we are to treat each other with the upmost care. We are to be known by how we love another, after all. 

My counsel is simple: if it's plain for all to see that disagreement is unavoidable, then leave it at that. Attempting to furiously bash each other upon the noggin (figuratively speaking) accomplishes nothing worthwhile.

Simple, isn't it? 

[Stewardofthemystery]

10 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

You did not respond to any specifics in my post, even though you say you have.  I've participated in numerous discussions on this topic - no one is convinced of the other it seems.  Verses fly back and forth, but it appears to be futile . . .

Let the Holy Spirit speak to us as He will:  I pray the Lord will open my eyes if need be on this matter.  May you be open to seek Him for the same.

As said before, I don't think this is a core or essential item of the faith . . . so peace!

The multitudes of scriptures I quoted was my response to your question.

Know this….

Sinners shall not inherit the Kingdom of God…

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

King James Version

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”

Galatians 5:19-21

King James Version

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”

Ephesians 5:5

For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdomof Christ and of God.”

[Stewardofthemystery]

Jesus said in Matthew 5:48

“Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.”

 

This perfection is only made possible by being born again of the Holy Spirit and being made a new man in Christ.

 

John 17:23

I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.”

 

The word “perfect” in scripture can also mean to be “complete”.  Just as it is written we are “complete” in Him.

Colossians 2:10

And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:”

 

This perfection details being undefiled by sin, or without the spot, blemish, or “mark of sin”

Lets look at the word “perfect” in the Hebrew…

Gen 17:1 - And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walkbefore me, and be thou perfect. ^H8549
 

The word perfect H8549….

Strong’s Definitions

תָּמִים tâmîym, taw-meem'; from H8552; entire (literally, figuratively or morally); also (as noun) integrity, truth:—without blemish, complete, full, perfect, sincerely (-ity), sound, without spot, undefiled, upright(-ly), whole.

When the words of God talk about being undefiled “without blemish” or “without spot” it is talking about being “without the mark of sin” as sin is the “mark” of the man/beast.

Notice we, as Christ was also, are supposed to be without spot or without blemish, or without sin…

Ephesians 5:27

That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

1 Timothy 6:14

That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Hebrews 9:14

How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

1 Peter 1:19

But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

2 Peter 3:14

Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. 
 

Without spot= without sin

 

[JimmyB]

20 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

Those who sin are of the Devil…

1 John 3:8

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

 

Those who are born again of God do not sin….

 

1 John 3:9

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 John 5:18

We know that whosoever is born of Godsinneth not; but he that is begotten of Godkeepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

 

1 John 3:5-6

King James Version

5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.”

1 John 3:10

In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.”

 

God’s words of Truth do not lie or contradict.

 

So everyone who sins is "of the devil", including Christians?  Are you a) of the devil or b) perfectly sinless?

 

[JimmyB]

6 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

The multitudes of scriptures I quoted was my response to your question.

Know this….

 

Sinners shall not inherit the Kingdom of God…

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

King James Version

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”

Galatians 5:19-21

King James Version

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”

Ephesians 5:5

For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdomof Christ and of God.”

I wouldn't use any of those terms to refer to  Christians.  Are you hanging out with the wrong crowd?

Edited July 29, 2023 by JimmyB