Any thoughts on this?

[Marathoner]

37 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Well, I've been duly strawman categorized once again!

Hmm... 

Add bunny ears and that strawman would be your spitting image! 

Humor aside, the strawman nonsense needs to cease. Putting words, thoughts, and motivations into the mouths, minds, and hearts of others is slanderous, not to mention an example of false witness. It's unacceptable and unbecoming of the sons and daughters of God. 

[Still Alive]

3 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

The Lord does... it's an evil thing with many places in scripture saying it's evil.

1 Thessalonians 5:22
Abstain from all appearance of evil.

2 Corinthians 6:17
come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

James 4:4
know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Plus, today's medical science has proven that alcohol is damaging to your body.  Sure, some element in wine are good for you but you can get the same thing from grape juice.  The alcohol content is damaging to our body.

And by the way, Jesus taught sinners would be tormented in hell for all of eternity because He said that hell was made for satan and his fallen angels so sinners going to hell will get the reward of their father the devil, eternal torment!

Those opposing the teachings of the Lord will be shocked one day to find out what happens when one stands in opposition to the Lord.  But, that's an entirely different convo.

 

Meh, that's just the devil doing to people what he did to Adam and Eve... "did God really say???"


 

Surgar and white bread are damaging to your body, technicall. So is alcohol. BTW, I'm enjoying Kombucha to get my "probiotics" after I had open heart surgery. It has a bit of alcohol in it, as does Kimchi and sauerkraut. 

And now you know why Americans are so obese and rife with illnesses in their old age. My heart problem was genetic. And all the testing they did led them to tell me I'm in incredible health for my age (70). My liver is excellent and my arteries are clear. But it's because of diet and exercise. 

I smoke a couple of cigars a year and hardly drink at all. Basically it's all good "in moderation". At least, that's my opinion. But dogmatism about alcohol is the core reason I had to leave one of those churches. It was the dogmatism that sealed it. And I don't have "friendship with the world". Quite the opposite, actually. But my church has a hundred or so donuts available every week. I avoid them like the plague. I don't accuse them of having "friendship with the world, either". 

We all have our own path to follow. I take very seriously the "judge not, lest you be judged" scripture. I may exercise judgement in choosing a mechanic, but I let others live their life. That said, I did suggest to the kid (He's about 30) who I let hunt on my property, after he admitted he is taking high blood pressure medication, that he might want to consider taking seriously some weight loss. He's borderline morbidly obese. I'm not judging him. I'm offering mild health advise, but what he does is up to him. John Candy is no longer with us for a reason, and it's not about alcohol.

I close it with this: For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon.’ The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’ But wisdom is proved right by her deeds.”

Edited September 16, 2023 by Still Alive

[Still Alive]

In case nobody has brought this up, and it is only my opinion: New wine is "grape juice" while old wine is fermented wine. And until the invention of welches grape juice, ALL grape juice eventually became wine. That is the point of the "new wine in old wineskins" verse. 

But the alcohol level of wine naturally varied quiet a bit depending on how "old" it was. I'm also of the understanding that in many cultures throughout the centuries, people would drink alcoholic beverages like beer or wine because water was liable to make you sick. 

https://www.scifacts.net/human/is-beer-healthier-than-water/

Alcohol, like sugar or white flour, can be harmful if one consumes too much of it. But that doesn't make the mere act of consuming it in any quantity a sin.

But again, that is just my opinion. I have to admit that the biggest issue I have often with discussing/arguing various "controversial" topics, be it religion, politics, or culture, I find too often that way too many people think they are absolutely right and anyone that disagrees with them wrong, wrong, wrong and hopelessly delusional. 

I'm gonna guess that is how most members of Westboro Baptist Church feel on several subjects.

[Still Alive]

3 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

Meh, that's just the devil doing to people what he did to Adam and Eve... "did God really say???"


 

That's certainly one way to look at it. Another way is to understand the source of our scripture and the translations/transliterations to help understand that sometimes it's not what God said that is the problem, but ones interpretation of what God said. That's why we have so many versions of the bible and so many different denominations. 

I'm not so narcissistic as to believe that if anyone disagrees with me on any issue regarding the contents of the bible and what it is communicating, they are dead wrong and a sinner. It just may be possible that I'm the one that is wrong. No two Christians completely agree on every single Christian doctrine - unless they are simply following a modern false prophet. Think David Koresh.

[Still Alive]

On 8/6/2023 at 2:02 PM, Stan Murff said:

Jesus got drunk drinking wine?  I never heard that before

I guess my biggest question is, I'll still go to heaven, right?

If it's true that all our sins past present and future are already forgiven, and we will still go to heaven regardless of our actions, then why does it even matter?

I can tell you why it matters: It's not about salvation. Salvation is about accepting Jesus free gift. From that point on, your sins are forgiven, but it doesn't mean some of them may give you adult onset diabetes, or even land you in prison. 

Oh Brother Where Art Thou was comedy, but there is more truth in this than people realize:

That's not the issue Delmar. Even if that did put you square with the Lord, the State of Mississippi's a little more hard-nosed.

[Still Alive]

BTW, this thread reminds me of this: 

The Tyranny of the Weaker Brother

 

•  

[Vine Abider]

18 minutes ago, Still Alive said:

BTW, this thread reminds me of this: 

The Tyranny of the Weaker Brother

 

 

•  

Thanks!  Liked this from it (and I paraphrased for brevity): "Look, there's a person who is a vegetarian and a Christian belongs to Christ and I eat meat.  We both belong to Christ. If we are to judge, we are to judge in the explicit standards set forth in sacred scripture, not by scruples invented by human tradition.  For instance, 50 years ago we were plagued by a spirit of legalism such as don't drink, don't smoke, don't dance, don't apply lipstick and so forth.  These became so important as to become a test of one's Christianity.  Is that the gospel - not eating, drinking or dancing?  No, that's not the gospel.  But if the weaker one believes that going to a movie or doing one of these things is a sin, is it?  Yes, it has become sin to them.  And if it's sin to them, then the stronger one, who knows better, should do their best not to stumble that brother or despise them by making fun of their scruple or entice them into something they are convinced is against the law of God."

Definitely worth a listen!  (I suggest listening on 1.5 speed)

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

4 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

And you do know Jesus drank wine, right?

You cannot prove He drank wine with alcohol in it...

 

4 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Well, I've been duly strawman categorized once again!

Actually you have been proven to not believe the second half of Romans 8:1... pure and simple.

When one does not have anything to prove God's Word is wrong concerning some position that is not supported by the whole counsel of God...

They start honkin the "strawman horn".... it's what some folks do! 
Kinda like the Road Runnr... beep beep!

 

Edited September 17, 2023 by Stan Murff

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

duplicate

Edited September 16, 2023 by Stan Murff

[DeighAnn]

On 8/9/2023 at 9:56 PM, Stan Murff said:

None the less, one does not lose their salvation according to the majority of believers say and believe

Makes it a bummer that the MAJORITY of believers won't be YOUR judge,

doesn't it? 



"For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:" Romans 2:14 KJV




I'll just give some verses you might want to go deeper into...find out what they mean to you  because

"For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise." 2 Corinthians 10:12 KJV


What is a sin to YOU might not be a sin to the person next to you who may be of either a weaker faith or stronger faith than you...you know the meat sacrificed to idols....


"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." Hebrews 4:12 KJV


"Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted." 1 Corinthians 10:6 KJV

 

James 4
11Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.

12There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

13Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain:

14Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away.

15For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.

16But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil.

17Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.




 

Ro 3
21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Leviticus 10

8And the LORD spake unto Aaron, saying,

9Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations:

10And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean;

11And that ye may teach the children of Israel all the statutes which the LORD hath spoken unto them by the hand of Moses.





BUT one reason I PERSONALLY DON'T THINK YOU SHOULD GET DRUNK

EVERY WEEKEND IS

because what is written here SIMPLY BREAKS THE HEART showing the feelings and emotions of GOD the Creator and Savior of us, and I would love to see GOD look down on as many of us as He can who have received the GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT and be proud...

(I have no problem with having a drink or two, AND I BELIEVE this shows US NEITHER DOES GOD, A BIT MORE CLEARLY THAN ANYWHERE ELSE on the subject)


Jeremiah 35

1The word which came unto Jeremiah from the LORD in the days of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah, saying,

2Go unto the house of the Rechabites, and speak unto them, and bring them into the house of the LORD, into one of the chambers, and give them wine to drink.

3Then I took Jaazaniah the son of Jeremiah, the son of Habaziniah, and his brethren, and all his sons, and the whole house of the Rechabites;

4And I brought them into the house of the LORD, into the chamber of the sons of Hanan, the son of Igdaliah, a man of God, which was by the chamber of the princes, which was above the chamber of Maaseiah the son of Shallum, the keeper of the door:

5And I set before the sons of the house of the Rechabites pots full of wine, and cups, and I said unto them, Drink ye wine.

6But they said, We will drink no wine: for Jonadab the son of Rechab our father commanded us, saying, Ye shall drink no wine, neither ye, nor your sons for ever:

7Neither shall ye build house, nor sow seed, nor plant vineyard, nor have any: but all your days ye shall dwell in tents; that ye may live many days in the land where ye be strangers.

8Thus have we obeyed the voice of Jonadab the son of Rechab our father in all that he hath charged us, to drink no wine all our days, we, our wives, our sons, nor our daughters;

9Nor to build houses for us to dwell in: neither have we vineyard, nor field, nor seed:

10But we have dwelt in tents, and have obeyed, and done according to all that Jonadab our father commanded us.

11But it came to pass, when Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon came up into the land, that we said, Come, and let us go to Jerusalem for fear of the army of the Chaldeans, and for fear of the army of the Syrians: so we dwell at Jerusalem.

12Then came the word of the LORD unto Jeremiah, saying,

13Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Go and tell the men of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, Will ye not receive instruction to hearken to my words? saith the LORD.

14The words of Jonadab the son of Rechab, that he commanded his sons not to drink wine, are performed; for unto this day they drink none, but obey their father's commandment: notwithstanding I have spoken unto you, rising early and speaking; but ye hearkened not unto me.

15I have sent also unto you all my servants the prophets, rising up early and sending them, saying, Return ye now every man from his evil way, and amend your doings, and go not after other gods to serve them, and ye shall dwell in the land which I have given to you and to your fathers: but ye have not inclined your ear, nor hearkened unto me.

16Because the sons of Jonadab the son of Rechab have performed the commandment of their father, which he commanded them; but this people hath not hearkened unto me:

17Therefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring upon Judah and upon all the inhabitants of Jerusalem all the evil that I have pronounced against them: because I have spoken unto them, but they have not heard; and I have called unto them, but they have not answered.

18And Jeremiah said unto the house of the Rechabites, Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Because ye have obeyed the commandment of Jonadab your father, and kept all his precepts, and done according unto all that he hath commanded you:

19Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Jonadab the son of Rechab shall not want a man to stand before me for ever

Will you be seeing the Lord and Saviour TONIGHT?  Tomorrow?  Car Accident?  Sudden organ failure?  

And if someone is trying to tell you this only applies to the day of the Lord, better read it again till it is telling you something more


 

42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

45Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

46Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

47Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

48But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

49And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

50The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

51And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

So EVERYONE HERE can have their opinions but WHAT IS WRITTEN is what you should believe and read it as it is before you try and read it into any sort of doctrine.  

At least that is what I believe....