Big Boy Stan Murf Posted August 30, 2023 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,028 Content Per Day: 3.89 Reputation: 279 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/26/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted August 30, 2023 16 minutes ago, Vine Abider said: No one (at least not me) is saying that there is no accountability and discipline for born-again children of God who keep on sinning. And this causes people to stumble because ultimately they are being told that no matter what they will still go to Heaven. This means they think they can turn away from the Lord and live in sin and it's a good because they are continually being told they cannot lose their salvation which is false doctrine when compared to the whole counsel of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vine Abider Posted August 30, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 6 Topic Count: 213 Topics Per Day: 0.36 Content Count: 3,590 Content Per Day: 5.98 Reputation: 2,412 Days Won: 3 Joined: 10/25/2022 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/01/2024 Share Posted August 30, 2023 4 minutes ago, Stan Murff said: And this causes people to stumble because ultimately they are being told that no matter what they will still go to Heaven. This means they think they can turn away from the Lord and live in sin and it's a good because they are continually being told they cannot lose their salvation which is false doctrine when compared to the whole counsel of God. Again, this is perpetuating a strawman fallacy. Go read the "Believers' Accountability - The Judgement Seat of Christ" thread if you think that's what is being said, and it may result in a more complete understanding of this matter. And let's not hijack the thread, okay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdavidc Posted August 30, 2023 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 28 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 50 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 17 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/14/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted August 30, 2023 On 8/27/2023 at 5:24 PM, Anne2 said: If you believe they are not saved, then why wouldn't you want to? First of all the Bible says not to: Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, “I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch no unclean thing; then I will welcome you, and I will be a father to you, and you shall be sons and daughters to me, says the Lord Almighty.” ~ 2 Corinthians 6:14-18 They believe in faith PLUS works. Not what the Bible teaches. False gospel. But if you ask should we witness to them and try and share the actual good news of the Gospel with them? YES, we should do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesusandliberty Posted August 31, 2023 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 157 Content Per Day: 0.50 Reputation: 53 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2023 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 31, 2023 17 hours ago, Vine Abider said: This sounds like more of a political alignment, which I think may already basically be in place. My understanding is many, if not most, Catholics already vote conservative (although many non-white Catholics evidently do not). If we're talking this sort of "systematic oneness" with the RCC, which I agree is steeped in all kinds of things I don't think square with the bible, then I agree that it shouldn't be done. The RCC system is rotten. Yes. So while the system is rotten, there certainly can be born-again Christians in the RCC. I used to absolutely rail against the RCC system and its members, but the Lord has shown me in various ways that individuals there (or any church) may be His children. I'll relate just two things (there have been several more) that changed my thinking regarding this: 1) I went to a Catholic funeral for an extended family member, where a full-fledged Catholic priest gave the message. I was fully braced against what I thought the fellow might say. Much to my surprise, one of the freshest gospel messages came out that focused on faith in Christ alone and solid scripture, with not even a hint of covert RCC doctrine! I was taken back, and even refreshed, hearing these words of life that come out of him! 2) The Lord's letter to the church in Thyatira - most (protestant) commentators agree that this church bears at least a strong resemblance to the RCC. There are all kinds of things the Lord points out there that are highly grievous to the Him. (although, in fairness, He calls their works significant, which the RCC has) But, they were still one of the seven lampstands, which means they were Christians with the Lord's life in them. (although with the things they were practicing, the percentage of born-again believers there likely would have declined rapidly). The lesson/takeaway for me is we cannot apply a the same broad-brush to the individuals in the RCC as we do the system and its hierarchy. I'm convinced that some number there are truly born-again (although it kind of astounds me that they remain in the RCC . . .). Again, I was one who railed against the RCC and its members. Now, I still speak out against the system and the practices, as you've mentioned (particularly the Mary thing - drives me bunkers!). And the early RCC was responsible for bringing in all kinds of erroneous ideas and practices, which we in the non-RCC church are still struggling with today. And, of course, this is where you and I differ in our salvation stance - I believe a person can be born-again with Christ's eternal life in them, and they may go off into erroneous things, yet they don't stop being their Father's child. There is accountability for all and He says, "Vengeance is mine - I will repay." (Deut 32:35) But it is the Lord's responsibility to correct and discipline others who are caught in error, not my responsibility . . . other than speak the truth in love to them. And He will do it as He sees fit, in His timing, and it will all turn out glorious, according to His loving plan for us - even regarding the great mystery, the RCC. This was fantastically put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesusandliberty Posted August 31, 2023 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 157 Content Per Day: 0.50 Reputation: 53 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2023 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 31, 2023 15 hours ago, bdavidc said: They believe in faith PLUS works. Faith without works is dead. Read James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesusandliberty Posted August 31, 2023 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 157 Content Per Day: 0.50 Reputation: 53 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2023 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 31, 2023 20 hours ago, Vine Abider said: This sounds like more of a political alignment, which I think may already basically be in place. My understanding is many, if not most, Catholics already vote conservative (although many non-white Catholics evidently do not). Yes but things like showing up together to demonstrations, coordinating efforts against legislation that are pro abortion, working together on bills to ban it etc. is what I was basically asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne2 Posted August 31, 2023 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,508 Content Per Day: 1.43 Reputation: 629 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/29/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted August 31, 2023 On 8/27/2023 at 9:42 AM, Stan Murff said: Exactly. The stage has already been set for the coming one world religion thru the ecumenical movement and they are already denigrating anyone who suggests their their "religion" is the only way to God. You know the story they tell is that ALL roads lead to God and they suck people in thru emotionalism and the wisdom of man which is in opposition to the wisdom of the Lord. I've already heard some claiming to be Christians talk about how wonderful it is for all religions to be coming together in harmony. This will end very badly for them. Ecumenism is a matter of ALL repenting of that which divides. Therefore, it is not just to accept what everyone does or or teaches. Rather a sincere effort to examine ourselves, in an effort change when fault is acknowledged. Anti ecumenists have the attitude that they are right, and all they say and do is the only truth. They err in nothing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJK Posted August 31, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 43 Topics Per Day: 0.09 Content Count: 3,349 Content Per Day: 7.08 Reputation: 1,306 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/01/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted August 31, 2023 18 minutes ago, Anne2 said: Rather a sincere effort to examine ourselves, in an effort change when fault is acknowledged. I think what constitutes a fault would be at issue here, along with how to change it. I would suggest an absolute and unchanging standard is needed to avoid everyone becoming righteous in their own mind and going whatever way the (figuratively) prevailing wind blows them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farouk Posted August 31, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 7,050 Content Per Day: 12.24 Reputation: 3,631 Days Won: 31 Joined: 11/18/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted August 31, 2023 2 hours ago, jesusandliberty said: Yes but things like showing up together to demonstrations, coordinating efforts against legislation that are pro abortion, working together on bills to ban it etc. is what I was basically asking. Care does need to be made about doctrine even if on the surface it's supposed to be political rather than doctrinal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted August 31, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,991 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,794 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted August 31, 2023 On 8/30/2023 at 6:37 AM, jesusandliberty said: Anyone who professes with their mouth Jesus is Lord and believes in their heart He was resurrected is saved right? I would assume this applies to everyone including Catholics. Everyone who believes in their heart that Jesus died for the forgiveness of our sins is SAVED. To have forgiveness of sins in Jesus Christ he is having the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ. His own righteousness is another matter, but he cannot be condemned because he has Jesus Christ imputed righteousness. We are Saved from DEATH-THANATOS and the God of the Dead. He cannot have us, we will never be gathered to him at the time of our physical death... We gathered to the one who has forgive our sins to the one who has justified us by putting our sins under his blood. We are Saved while we still live, we believe and we are gathered to him at the time of our physical death. Where he is that's where we will be at the time of our physical death. Jesus does not want our "corpse" the dead body, and neither the Devil or the God of the Dead cares about our "corpse" which is given to the relatives to deal with it according to their customs before they give it to the earth. Praise the Name of Jesus. Works are not discussed because they cannot give anyone the righteousness of Jesus Christ or Justified anyone before the Heavenly Father..everyone has to be justified by the blood of the Slain Lamb of God who died for the forgiveness of our sins..Every one must have his sins forgiven in the blood of the Slain Lamb of God to be justified in his name to be included in the children of the Heavenly Father. Before the foundation of the world The Heavenly Father had proposed to himself to have children justified only by the blood of the Slain Lamb of God, in Jesus Christ. If someone believes that he has to include his work let him, leave him alone...you who do not include your works and you believe that you are justified by faith alone, do not forget to do the good works because it is our good works that recommend us to the one who has saved us who is the Heavenly Father through Jesus Christ, through his obedience to the Heavenly Father all the way to the Cross. TETELESTE, ITS FINISHED. Paul said: the try to earn what they already have. They labour for something they all reay have, The Eternal Life with Jesus Christ and the Heavenly Father. If you understand any better and rest in the work of Jesus Christ do not follow but do not condemned them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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