Scott Free Posted February 13 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 88 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,276 Content Per Day: 0.62 Reputation: 290 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 13 (edited) 7 hours ago, Tristen said: In one breath you are suggesting we should avoid dogmatism, but in the next breath you are negatively characterizing those who disagree with you about creationism You may be right. This is my level of competency in dealing with the issue. I use post as a school for myself to better formulate and explore these problems. I will contemplate this issue, be it personal inconsistency or unclear messaging. Edited February 13 by Scott Free Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Free Posted February 13 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 88 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,276 Content Per Day: 0.62 Reputation: 290 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 13 (edited) 8 hours ago, RV_Wizard said: Deliberately misquoting the Bible to teach as fact something diametrically opposed to what is written is heresy. That is exactly what flat Earth Christians and church leaders of the Middle Ages said. I wish to avoid repeating that mistake of over-confidence in our ability to perceive the meaning of what is written. Edited February 13 by Scott Free 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Free Posted February 13 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 88 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,276 Content Per Day: 0.62 Reputation: 290 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 13 (edited) 12 hours ago, Tristen said: (i.e. as angry fanatics who think they "know everything" and are "not in the spirit of Christ"). My point throughout the debate is consistent, "Now our knowledge is partial and incomplete, and even the gift of prophecy reveals only part of the whole picture!" or "For our gifts of knowledge and of inspired messages are only partial." I Corinthians 13:9. Yes, Christian-know-it-allism is contrary the humility of the Spirit. We know only a portion of the truth, and what we say about God is always incomplete. I know some things, but I also recognize and accept my ignorance is greater *I said the world views Creationist as always angry. *The phrase with "know everything" was generalized including myself. *Falling down a rabbit hole of endless futile argument is an unfruitful waist of time. Our individual belief systems are not the real issue. It has no affect on our salvation, Christ Body relationship or the Gospel. There is a more pressing issue of the Spirit that is being addressed. Humility is the focus, because, I know the discipline of the Fathers loving hand in this matter all too well. Thank you, for your input. I need improvement and truly appreciate it. Will pray about it. Edited February 13 by Scott Free Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RV_Wizard Posted February 13 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 744 Content Per Day: 0.81 Reputation: 317 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/22/2021 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/05/1962 Share Posted February 13 7 hours ago, Scott Free said: That is exactly what flat Earth Christians and church leaders of the Middle Ages said. What about the flat earth non-Christians? What of the heathens and the pagans? What of the cartographers who, not knowing what lay beyond the known parts of the sea, wrote "Here be dragons?" What of the "experts" of the day who warned Columbus he would fall off the edge of the earth? Why would you limit the scope of those ignorant of the shape of the earth to early Christians, when NOBODY in the day believed in a spherical earth? Evolutionists take what is known and observed and DEMAND that we accept the extrapolation to common descent. Bible critics take that which is figurative and DEMAND that we accept that which is clearly a narrative as figurative language. Neither are correct. If you had a time machine and you went back in time, how would you speak to those around you without revealing knowledge they wouldn't have for thousands of years and thus changing the course of history? Jesus understood the workings of the universe the Father created because He was there also, in the midst of it. Yet He was not here to educate us in science or cosmology. This knowledge He did not impart. What He did validate was that the Scriptures are the inspired words of God and every word therein is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Barbarian Posted February 13 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,051 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 969 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/20/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 13 1 hour ago, RV_Wizard said: What about the flat earth non-Christians? Actually, every educated person in the Mediterranean world had known the world was round, long before Christ was born. About 200 BC, Eratosthenes showed how big the globe was to a very accurate number. 1 hour ago, RV_Wizard said: What of the "experts" of the day who warned Columbus he would fall off the edge of the earth? They didn't exist. That's a myth. His detractors assailed him, because he greatly underestimated the size of the world. If it wasn't for the Americas being there, he'd have never made it. 1 hour ago, RV_Wizard said: Evolutionists take what is known and observed and DEMAND that we accept the extrapolation to common descent. Actually Darwin didn't make that claim. Indeed, he wrote in his book that God might have made any number of species at the beginning. Geneticists confirmed common descent, not "evolutionists." 1 hour ago, RV_Wizard said: Jesus understood the workings of the universe the Father created because He was there also, in the midst of it. Yet He was not here to educate us in science or cosmology. And yet you insist that God did just that in Genesis. You're not very consistent. You were right, this time, of course. But not the first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Barbarian Posted February 13 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,051 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 969 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/20/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 13 6 hours ago, Scott Free said: *I said the world views Creationist as always angry. Not all of them are. I have talked and even debated with any number of calm and polite YE creationists. A few of them, like John Woodmorappe and Thomas Woodward, were kind enough to help me understand their viewpoints at some length. Woodward even sent me a copy of his book with a kind comment written into the front cover. This is particularly true of creationists who are scientifically literate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted February 13 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,194 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,471 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted February 13 2 minutes ago, The Barbarian said: Not all of them are. I have talked and even debated with any number of calm and polite YE creationists. A few of them, like John Woodmorappe and Thomas Woodward, were kind enough to help me understand their viewpoints at some length. Woodward even sent me a copy of his book with a kind comment written into the front cover. This is particularly true of creationists who are scientifically literate. a literacy that denies God's Word is really illiterate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Barbarian Posted February 13 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,051 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 969 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/20/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 13 1 minute ago, enoob57 said: a literacy that denies God's Word is really illiterate... A literacy that projects one's own ideas on God's Word is doubly so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted February 13 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,194 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,471 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted February 13 I'm not really interested in opinions outside of Scripture revelation... like I said illiterate... The objective nature of written material is of such 7 literal 24 hour days of creation and beyond this is illiteracy... The Word itself has founded this for me and my rest is assured by God in such... You have been told and shown yet you reject thus you await God's correcting of you... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Free Posted February 13 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 88 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,276 Content Per Day: 0.62 Reputation: 290 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 13 1 hour ago, The Barbarian said: Not all of them are. That is a good point. I would not dare say they are not Christians filled with the Holy Spirit. What seems to happen is these kinds of debates bring out the worst in people, degrading into domineering narcissist displays of frustration. This is want people outside the sphere of influence tend to see. The need to be always right smothers the light of Love. I have fallen into that trap many times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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