farouk Posted October 3, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 26 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 6,558 Content Per Day: 12.21 Reputation: 3,342 Days Won: 31 Joined: 11/18/2022 Status: Online Share Posted October 3, 2023 2 hours ago, DeighAnn said: In which way? Matthew 12.40: " For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." Luke 11.30-32: "For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation. The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with the men of this generation, and condemn them: for she came from the utmost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here. The men of Nineve shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transmogrified Posted October 3, 2023 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 795 Content Per Day: 0.51 Reputation: 98 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted October 3, 2023 Quote THE WHEAT AND TARES Behold I show you a mystery WE NOT ALL SHALL DIE at the 7th trump..... Wheat and tares are the harvest. It is to them the mystery applies. Those who have followed Christ to heaven have already been raised up. They sowned their naturall body and were raised in their spiritual body. JUST LIKE IT IS WRITTEN I was responding to the above quote when I said the wheat and the tares concerning the end of THIS age, and not when Jesus ascended up to heaven...two different time frames..the one when Christ ascended was not the end of the age when Christ returns...that is the end of the age the wheat and tares are about. I was not accusing you of saying the tares were resurrected and thrown into the fire when Jesus ascended into heaven...I was clarifying that the time the wheat and the tares were in reference to was not when Jesus ascended and so I made the statement that it does not say the wicked dead were cast into the fire at that time...I did not say it to accuse you of saying it but rather to clarify that you have the time frames mixed up...because of what you said here: Quote Those who have followed Christ to heaven have already been raised up. both the wheat and the tares are not gathered or resurrected UNTIL the end of THIS AGE...so there is absolutely no reference to wheat being gathered at any time BEFORE the end of this age, as you were relating the wheat to those who had allegedly rose up to heaven at his ascension...there were no saints that ascended up to heaven when Christ ascended up, therefore the wheat analogy does not apply not only because the time frame is off, but because no wheat ever was gathered at that time anyway. When I said these were all imaginations of yours I was not directly referring to you saying the tares were cast into the fire when Jesus ascended...I know you did not say that, and it was not directed towards you as if you did say that...I was meaning the whole time frame of the wheat and tares has nothing to do with what wheat being gathered at the time Christ ascended as the parable clearly is explained that the harvest, when the gathering takes place is at the end of the age and no wheat or tares were ever gathered until that time, meaning the wheat being gathered in the parable of the wheat and tares has absolutely nothing to do with what happened when Jesus arose...This error that wheat was being gathered at his ascension and the error of inserting the gathering of the wheat and tares into the time frame of the ascension was what I was referring to when I said this is all in your imagination...not that you said the tares were gathered and burned in the fire when Jesus ascended...I said that to make it clear IF the time frame of the wheat and tares was when Christ arose, then there would have also been a resurrection of the wicked dead which of course did not happen, and will not happen until Jesus comes. Please forgive for wording it in a way that could be misunderstood as if I was saying you were saying the wicked dead were resurrected when Christ arose...I know you did not say that, and I was not meaning to imply you did. 4 hours ago, DeighAnn said: 5 hours ago, transmogrified said: The end of THIS AGE does not mean the last day of the Old Testament… On the last day of the Old Testament the WICKED DEAD DID NOT GET RESURRECTED … When it said many of the saints which slept arose it does not also say - “And all the wicked dead who slept arose also and were cast into everlasting fire.. NO NO AND NO.. THESE ARE ALL IMAGINATIONS OF YOURS… NO WHEAT ASCENDED UP TO HEAVEN AT THE TIME JESUS ASCENDED.. No tares we’re cast into the fire when Jesus ascended.. THESE ARE EVENTS THAT HAPPEN TO ALL THE WHEAT AND ALL THE TARES AT THE SECOND COMING!!!! Really bothers you that much you have resorted to saying things yourself and acting like I said them AND then calling them my imagination? The evil figs were so evil they couldn't be eaten. LOTS BEING WRITTEN IN THE BOOKS TODAY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transmogrified Posted October 3, 2023 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 795 Content Per Day: 0.51 Reputation: 98 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted October 3, 2023 7 hours ago, DeighAnn said: On 10/1/2023 at 8:28 PM, transmogrified said: AFTER THE SECOND COMING THERE IS A COMPLETELY NEW SET OF PEOPLE WHO WILL LIVE AND DIE DURING THAT TIME... WHAT????????? So to clarify I am meaning all the people from Adam until the second coming who have died are resurrected and both good and bad are judged and receive their rewards...those who were saints were glorified and will rule with Christ and be like the angels who never die and the wicked dead will have been cast into the fire...so what we have is the multitudes who were alive at the time Christ came who convert and come under the rule of Christ and the saints...These are people in natural bodies who are just like you and me who were alive at the time Christ returned and they washed their robes in the blood of the lamb... What I am getting at is there is only one last generation of people who would be alive at the time Christ returns, and they would be just like we are...natural human beings who marry, eat and drink, have babies, work in the fields and so forth... So please forgive me for not being clearer, but what I mean is that when Christ comes the entire world of the living and the dead is judged and rewarded, and the Great White throne judgment pertains only then to those who would be alive and die during that thousand year period. I should not have said an entirely new set of people...as the generation that existed at the time carries on throughout the 1000 years depending on how long they live and so forth. the thrust of what I was getting at was the judgment at the Second Coming pertains to one group of people and the GWT judgment pertains to those who would be alive or die from the second coming to the end of the 1000 years,obviously meaning there would be deaths and births during that time who never had anything to do with what happened at the second coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilohsfoal Posted October 3, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 153 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5,881 Content Per Day: 2.46 Reputation: 330 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/22/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted October 3, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, transmogrified said: So to clarify I am meaning all the people from Adam until the second coming who have died are resurrected and both good and bad are judged and receive their rewards...those who were saints were glorified and will rule with Christ and be like the angels who never die and the wicked dead will have been cast into the fire...so what we have is the multitudes who were alive at the time Christ came who convert and come under the rule of Christ and the saints...These are people in natural bodies who are just like you and me who were alive at the time Christ returned and they washed their robes in the blood of the lamb... What I am getting at is there is only one last generation of people who would be alive at the time Christ returns, and they would be just like we are...natural human beings who marry, eat and drink, have babies, work in the fields and so forth... So please forgive me for not being clearer, but what I mean is that when Christ comes the entire world of the living and the dead is judged and rewarded, and the Great White throne judgment pertains only then to those who would be alive and die during that thousand year period. I should not have said an entirely new set of people...as the generation that existed at the time carries on throughout the 1000 years depending on how long they live and so forth. the thrust of what I was getting at was the judgment at the Second Coming pertains to one group of people and the GWT judgment pertains to those who would be alive or die from the second coming to the end of the 1000 years,obviously meaning there would be deaths and births during that time who never had anything to do with what happened at the second coming. Your contradicting revelation of Jesus Christ.There are far more dead who are not raised at Christs coming than those who are. You said all the people who have died from Adam to the second coming are resurected at Christ coming. Did you forget the rest of the dead who are not resurected in the first resurection? Revelation 20 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. I suppose this is one of those things Paul didn't know about since he was not given this revelation.Or he forgot to mention it. Edited October 3, 2023 by Shilohsfoal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeighAnn Posted October 3, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 6,301 Content Per Day: 3.62 Reputation: 1,658 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 3, 2023 9 hours ago, transmogrified said: There is no such thing as a “just unbeliever” There will be a resurrection of the dead both of the just and of the unjust but no such thing a just unbeliever. IT IS a resurrection of the DEAD, not dead bodies. BUT THE DEAD ARE UNBELIEVERS OR ELSE THEY WOULDN'T BE DEAD. Not the living. The living don't need to be resurrected when He returns, they have already risen, and they have risen in incorruption. Again, the living return in bodies that are celestial, heavenly. But don't listen to me THAT WOULD BE FOOLISH, wouldn't it? THAT wouldn't prove anything other than I HAD MY OWN THOUGHTS and MY OWN WAYS of looking at things, and those, if they couldn't be PROVEN with GOD saying them, would only be FILTHY RAGS. So don't listen to my words, that way YOU WON'T BE DECEIVED INTO BELIEVING A LIE OR SOME TRADITION OF MAN. Remember when this body dies, is when this body is SOWN. WHAT are we told happens to those who have received THE GIFT OF SALVATION aka from going to the place of the dead?? PROVING WHAT I HAVE SAID BECAUSE IF I DIDN'T YOU WOULD BE A FOOL TO LISTEN TO JUST MY WORDS, wouldn't you? GOD TELLS US TO 'Prove what is RIGHT', not try to TALK IT TO DEATH. "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body." 1 Corinthians 15:44 KJV NOW if I had said something like IT IS RAISED WITHOUT A BODY... but it comes back for one You of course would ask "WHERE IS THAT WRITTEN?" The only choices I would have at that point would be to use a billion words to try and make you forget IT ISN'T WRITTEN ANYWHERE SO IT CAN'T BE PROVED and/or seduce you into believing it without it being written. CLAIMS I HAVE MADE AND NEED TO PROVE WITH THE WORDS OF GOD, SO YOU KNOW THEY ARE NOT FILTHY RAGS AND I AM NOT SEDUCING YOU INTO BELIEVING A LIE. PROBABLY VERY RARE NOW A DAYS, BUT LOOKING TO START A NEW TREND TO SEE WHAT IS WHAT PROVE WHAT IS RIGHT BODY FROM HEAVEN NOT MADE WITH HAND DON'T COME BACK FOR A BODY YOU LEFT SOULS WHO RISE WHEN CHRIST COMES BACK because they are RISING FROM CORRUPTION can't receive immortality HENCE the dead DEAD RISING NOT THE LIVING RISEN IMMORTAL But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased Him, and to every seed his own body 1 Corinthians 15:38 2 Corinthians 5 1For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: 3If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 4For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. 5Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. 6Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 7(For we walk by faith, not by sight:) 8We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 9Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain 1 Corinthians 15:37 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption 1 Corinthians 15:50 That he should still live for ever, and not see corruption Psalms 49:9 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption Psalms 16:10 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption Acts 2:31 THE DEAD see corruption because the DEAD are buried. THE LIVING don't see corruption because the LIVING FOLLOW HIM. (raised up in glory and incorruption and power THE FIRST AND ONLY TIME) 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. THE DEAD ARE RAISED NOT CHANGED, WHILE THE LIVING ARE CHANGED NOT RAISED Apparently need SPIRITUAL EYES TO SEE THIS TRUTH THOUGH IT LOOKS SO PLAIN AND SIMPLE WHEN YOU HAVE THEM, APPARENTLY IMPOSSIBLE TO SEE WHEN YOU DON'T. THIS IS WHY WE PROVE GODS WORDS WITH WHAT IS WRITTEN BECAUSE IT IS THE ONLY TRUTH IN THE WORLD Not that it is going to matter but THE DEAD are going to be raised yet again while the living are going to be changed. JUST LIKE THE MYSTERY SAYS AND NONE OF IT HAS TO DO WITH THOSE WHO FOLLOWED HIM WHO WERE RAISED IN A SPIRITUAL BODY IN POWER AND GLORY AND IN INCORRUPTION JUST the living and the dead Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. THE DEAD ARE RAISED, NOT CHANGED WHILE THE LIVING ARE CHANGED NOT RAISED NO MENTION OF THOSE RETURNING BEING CHANGED NOT HERE NOT THERE NOT ANYWHERE SO PAUL ISN'T SAYING what you claim he is saying. SO, NO CONFLICT ANYWHERE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeighAnn Posted October 3, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 6,301 Content Per Day: 3.62 Reputation: 1,658 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 3, 2023 9 hours ago, farouk said: Matthew 12.40: " For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." Luke 11.30-32: "For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation. The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with the men of this generation, and condemn them: for she came from the utmost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here. The men of Nineve shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here." Did I spell it wrong or something? Is that what you are saying? If so, please be direct, I would appreciate it, and would go back and correct it if I did and thank you for pointing it out. If I didn't, then I still don't understand the reason for the original comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeighAnn Posted October 3, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 6,301 Content Per Day: 3.62 Reputation: 1,658 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 3, 2023 (edited) 8 hours ago, transmogrified said: both the wheat and the tares are not gathered or resurrected UNTIL the end of THIS AGE...so there is absolutely no reference to wheat being gathered at any time BEFORE the end of this age, as you were relating the wheat to those who had allegedly rose up to heaven at his ascension...there were no saints that ascended up to heaven when Christ ascended up, therefore the wheat analogy does not apply not only because the time frame is off, but because no wheat ever was gathered at that time anyway. The new covenant came in the GRAVES WERE OPENED. They went WALKING around the city. How much more PROOF did God need to GIVE to show the GRAVE wasn't holding HIS PEOPLE ANY LONGER?? THE RESURRECTION at the common death HAD BEGUN. It didn't come once and then end...OR ELSE people would think they had missed it, wouldn't they? How else could HE have PROVED that CHRIST had defeated DEATH and show us those who received THE GIFT OF SALVATION, didn't die except to/in this realm and the only thing the grave would get was the carcass from then on, but nothing else. WE ALL SUFFER THE COMMON DEATH but that is just OF THE EARTH vessel/house/body/ which WE LEAVE BEHIND while we KEEP ON LIVING in the HEAVENLY one. HENCE never die. we are RAISED in incorruption HENCE NEVER DIE we are RAISED in power HENCE NEVER DIE we are RAISED in glory HENCE NEVER DIE we are RAISED in a spiritual body HENCE NEVER DIE we return in a body HENCE NEVER DIE For THE LIVING to be waiting for the last day TO BE RAISED doesn't fit with what is written IN A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT WAYS. 25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: JESUS is about to die and rise again...when He said that and the graves were opened the first fruit of THEM THAT SLEPT though he were dead, yet shall he live if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised by man came also the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die. Believest thou this? The SECOND you believe that, YOU KNOW THE DEAD that rise first CAN'T BE THE LIVING, WHO NEVER DIED and followed Him and are returning with Him. YOU CAN KEEP SAYING NO ONE IS RESURRECTED until the last day BUT THERE IS PROOF ALL OVER THE BIBLE THAT GOD HAS BEEN RAISING THE DEAD SINCE BEFORE THE FLOOD IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. When it comes to PROVING, that is done using GODS WORD and either YOU CAN and YOU WILL OR YOU WON'T BECAUSE YOU CAN'T And see, I can keep repeating the same thing too Edited October 3, 2023 by DeighAnn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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