AdHoc Posted October 23, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,057 Content Per Day: 3.30 Reputation: 1,463 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/29/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted October 23, 2023 10 hours ago, Buzzard3 said: [Unaccepted Exclamation Edited] connect the dots! Why on earth would the writer say loving one another "fulfills the law" if there is no law Christians are obliged to fulfill? Furthermore, we are commanded by the Lord himself to love one another: "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; even as I have loved you, that you also love one another." (John 13:34) Since there is a commandment that Christians are obliged to obey, there is law that Christians are obliged to obey. What?? Verse 8 says "he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law", then the writer cites some of the Ten Commandments as examples of how you love your neighbour. No. If there are any dots they are men's doings. Your call for Christians to keep the Law is built by connecting your dots. Here is the full text with only God's Words. They shall speak for themselves; 1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. 2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace (Ga 5:1–4) Circumcision is man's part of the Covenant of Promise made with Abraham. It is regulated by the Covenant of Law made with Moses at Sinai. It is a pillar of BOTH Covenants. And if I keep it, "Christ will profit me NOTHING"! You should have mentioned that in your call. But this is not all. You cut the Law to pieces and bid your fellow Christian to keep parts of it. But the God of the fiery mountain Who gave this Law says you are to keep it ALL! And if we be obliged to keep the Law then we are justified by it. But this text makes clear that (i) you cause Christ to be of no effect to the Law-keeping Christian, and (ii) you suggest a way that causes a "fall from grace" - the very reason Jesus came (Jn.1:17). May the reader judge if this is not another gospel. I will refer you to Galatians with its judgment and sentence for such a gospel, lest I be accused of harshness. C'mon bro. Quote the Word and forget the dots. The Law was a God-given way to justify a man who had God living WITH him (albeit behind a curtain). Now, Jesus has fulfilled the Law and the whole Law is crucified with Christ. God has approved the Work of Jesus and set it forth as the standard of justification for a man where God lives IN him. By being Christ's you are justified by a much higher standard. Don't even think of returning to the Law. You have a new Law - the Law of the LIFE IN Christ Jesus. It sets you FREE from the Law that, for the man in the flesh, brings death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdHoc Posted October 23, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,057 Content Per Day: 3.30 Reputation: 1,463 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/29/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted October 23, 2023 7 hours ago, Buzzard3 said: Your "dead faith = eternal life" doctrine means that a believer can lead a life filled with the worst kinds of sin and evil and still be granted eternal life, doesn't it? This doctrine is your invention. If the honest reader went back and read my posts, he would not come to this conclusion. I published dire consequences for slothful and sinful living. It is one thing to be wrong, but to willfully misrepresent another Christian is another. Where then is the love you have been proposing for the last ten postings? By their fruits you will know them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzard3 Posted October 24, 2023 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 271 Content Per Day: 0.38 Reputation: 53 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/25/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted October 24, 2023 (edited) 13 hours ago, AdHoc said: Circumcision is man's part of the Covenant of Promise made with Abraham. It is regulated by the Covenant of Law made with Moses at Sinai. It is a pillar of BOTH Covenants. And if I keep it, "Christ will profit me NOTHING"! You should have mentioned that in your call Christians are not obliged to keep the ceremonial/ritual laws of Moses, such as circumcision. However, Christians are obliged to keep the moral laws of Moses. Thats what Jesus meant when he said he didn't come to abolish the Law. Edited October 24, 2023 by Buzzard3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzard3 Posted October 24, 2023 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 271 Content Per Day: 0.38 Reputation: 53 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/25/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted October 24, 2023 11 hours ago, AdHoc said: You cut the Law to pieces and bid your fellow Christian to keep parts of it. But the God of the fiery mountain Who gave this Law says you are to keep it ALL! Christians are obliged to keep all the law of Moses that remains after the Cross - ie, the moral laws of Moses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzard3 Posted October 24, 2023 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 271 Content Per Day: 0.38 Reputation: 53 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/25/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted October 24, 2023 (edited) 12 hours ago, AdHoc said: This doctrine is your invention. If the honest reader went back and read my posts, he would not come to this conclusion. I published dire consequences for slothful and sinful living. It is one thing to be wrong, but to willfully misrepresent another Christian is another. I didn't misrepresent you. You believe that faith alone - ie, faith without works - will guarantee you eternal life. But faith without works is dead (James 2:26), so the doctrine of salvation through faith alone can be summed up as "dead faith = eternal life". The "dire consequences" for sin you speak of don't include eternal damnation (hell) - therefore your "dead faith = eternal life" doctrine says a believer can live a life filled with lying, deception, adultery, rape, stealing. murder and all manner of foul deeds and God will still grant him eternal life. If your doctrine logically leads to absurd conclusions (and it does), it's not my fault. Edited October 24, 2023 by Buzzard3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael37 Posted October 24, 2023 Group: Servant Followers: 21 Topic Count: 244 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 7,017 Content Per Day: 3.28 Reputation: 4,938 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/05/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/23/1954 Share Posted October 24, 2023 7 hours ago, Buzzard3 said: You believe that faith alone - ie, faith without works - will guarantee you eternal life. That's a strawman used to deflect from the truth that it is by grace through faith we are saved, not of works, lest any should boast like these badly deceived fellows: Mat 7:21-23 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. (22) Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' (23) And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzard3 Posted October 25, 2023 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 271 Content Per Day: 0.38 Reputation: 53 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/25/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted October 25, 2023 19 hours ago, Michael37 said: That's a strawman used to deflect from the truth that it is by grace through faith we are saved, not of works, lest any should boast like these badly deceived fellows: Mat 7:21-23 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. (22) Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' (23) And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' I don't understand your point. Why have you quoted Matt 7:21-23 to support Eph 2:8-9? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzard3 Posted October 25, 2023 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 271 Content Per Day: 0.38 Reputation: 53 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/25/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted October 25, 2023 (edited) On 10/22/2023 at 4:17 PM, Willa said: Some of the church fathers were also rubbish and strayed far from Scripture. which they debated among themselves ... Augustine even took one stand early on and later reversed his position. They weren't perfect. We must rely on Scripture. At what point does this kick in? ... "When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth" (John 16:13) Jesus promised that the Holy Spirit will guide us "into all the truth". Does your reliance on Scripture mean you have "all the truth"? If neither you nor the ECFs have "all the truth", who does? Edited October 25, 2023 by Buzzard3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael37 Posted October 25, 2023 Group: Servant Followers: 21 Topic Count: 244 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 7,017 Content Per Day: 3.28 Reputation: 4,938 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/05/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/23/1954 Share Posted October 25, 2023 5 hours ago, Buzzard3 said: I don't understand your point. Why have you quoted Matt 7:21-23 to support Eph 2:8-9? It's called Soteriology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzard3 Posted October 25, 2023 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 271 Content Per Day: 0.38 Reputation: 53 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/25/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted October 25, 2023 On 10/24/2023 at 7:50 PM, Michael37 said: it is by grace through faith we are saved, not of works Eph 2:8-9 doesn't disprove salvation through faith and works. It simply says (a) faith is essential for salvation (b) no one is saved by works alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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