Analogies -Folly?

[Neighbor]

11 hours ago, Yes, and said:

By your standard it seems we should only be doing just that, quoting the Word, because even the things you seem to allow for ("even extra Biblical writing of history that also examines the word, and archaeological reveal") can be just as much in error or full of folly.

Hi,  By "extrabiblical" evidence  I am referencing records, writings and archeological evidence, that confirms what is written in the Bible is more than  allegory.

But I agree you are right in thinking that I think  that for the most part speakers and writers should stay to the actual word of God the Bible itself and not wander off on a tangent through their own imaginings.  Going word by word through the Bible with exposition of it and consideration of it's actual historic use who was being addressed why and what application there may be for the Christian today  for daily use is quite different from the rambling analogies of some speakers and writers imagination. 

 I do share the thought that analogies invented by mankind detract rather than enlighten and are often so tortured in order to make a point held onto closely by the speaker/ writer of them that the presentation actually  becomes a far fetched contrivance that tries to gain credibility for the speaker rather than  simply  presenting the word that is true the Bible. The speaker /writer actually tickling their own ears so to speak.

[itty-bitty lamb]

5 hours ago, Neighbor said:

Hi, God's use of  analogy is to me quite different from any individual trying to doing so. God's word the Bible coupled with enlightenment of it by the Holy Spirit is way different than the rather lame expressions too often made by man trying to imitate God,  adding to and or limiting God's word, or the God inspired word by a prophet or apostle as shared within the Bible. 

In reference to analogies created by a man trying to enhance the Word of God, i wouldn't feel comfortable writing them off as folly, because i would feel like i am placing a limit on God and His ability to reach the hearts of those listening.

God can still use the man's analogies and the man's attempt to minister to the listeners for His glory, right? You dont know who out there needed to hear that specific approach to the Word of God. It really is just a style of administering the Word. It might not be your style, but not everyone is created like you. There are many different styles of preaching and God uses them all. We all know how some people are visual learners, and some are learners by being hands-on, and others need to hear it to learn. Well what about our hearts, and what does it take to open the doors or our hearts to recieve the Word of God? Not all hearts are created equal, and some might need a good laugh before feeling relaxed enough to open their heart. Others might need a good story to warm them up for receiving the meat of the Word. Others might need a modern analogy to relate to before being able to accept an analogy written thousands of years ago. God is working behind the scene in all of these styles of approach, right?

The Holy Spirit is working through all of these styles and approaches, to mature His believers and save the lost.

[Neighbor]

50 minutes ago, itty-bitty lamb said:

God is working behind the scene in all of these styles of approach, right

Hi thanks for the challenging thoughts discussion!

In the sense that God uses even that which is intended for evil in order to do good for those that believe on Jesus as their Lord and savior I guess I will say yes that can be  so.

Analogies made by individuals are simply that, and they are uninspired of God. They are a bit of a talking down to the hearers of them, as though only the speaker/writer of them  is capable of understanding God's actual word and it's meaning and application. Seems to me to be a denial of the ability of the Holy Spirit.

Yes I do credit every reader of the word of God, that believes on the faith of Jesus, as having the ability to utilize the word of God; and to do so without some person inventing an analogy to explain it. That ability is Holy Spirit "breathed"  into each saint for application at the proper time and for proper use. It is by the Holy Spirit that the word of the Bible comes to life in practical usage when needed, and when it suits the good purposes of God.

Far better to read the word than to read and share homelitic analogies. Let God the Holy Spirit  bring forward the word that has already been read, prayed over, and studied,  at the time God wills for the saint's benefit.

Christians  are not in need of a milk only diet, each can prayerfully chew on the word and rely on the Spirit. There are few joys  higher than to be faced with a real life challenge, and  then to have the word of God come to mind, complete with the pathway for proper application, all by the mercy and grace of God alone. It confirms the value of reading and praying over that word.

My only regret is that I am a rather slow student. It takes of me much effort, perhaps more so than for many individuals to gather in what I read within the Bible. But wow, what a kick it is when those times of reading come to life in real time experiences. Some of which have saved me from great folly  and also serious danger.

[itty-bitty lamb]

3 hours ago, Neighbor said:

Far better to read the word than to read and share homelitic analogies.

Oh, i'm slow at learning too haha. my mind is not quick.

Yet i still see no great issue with using some homelitic fluff to a sermon, as long as the Word of God is getting across to the listeners. i've never experienced a situation where i've felt insulted by a speaker adding their own analogies. Maybe bored...but not insulted. i guess i don't think that deep into the speaker and their approach like you have. We both believe the Spirit of God works in our hearts through the message even despite the intentions of the speaker, and their use of analogies.

Any preacher who is not adding the Word of God into their message though...that is an issue. If they focus on their own created material to the point of overshadowing the Word of God coming straight from the Bible then i wouldn't like that.

Another thought is the likeness of parables to testimonies. It is the transfer of information and experiences and meanings from one target onto another target. The Spirit uses analogies to witness His nature to us just like the Spirit uses our testimonies to witness to unbelievers. God is still working in these whether they came straight out of the Bible or not. i don't feel it is a folly, because God is unlimited in His reach and can use anything to minister to us. But yes, the Word of God straight out of the Bible should always be the center and focus and heart of every homelitic analogy.

You are right in how sweet the understanding is when you experience the Word of God living and working in our lives. There is victory when a verse comes to mind which suddenly counsels or guides you down a lifesaving path. It is crucial for us to hide God's scripture in our hearts and minds.

You say Christians are not in need of a milk only diet, and i agree. But i think that a glass of milk is helpful to have on the side to help swallow down the meat. So, a balance.

[Willa]

One reason that I love the writings of Corry Ten Boom is that she spoke often using analogies and similes.  She spoke as Jesus spoke.  It wasn't the intellectual that feeds my spirit but the simple way she expressed truths.  She once compared God to a piece os chocolate.  It can be analyzed chemically. You can know the recipe for making it.  But until you have tasted it..........Taste and see that the Lord is good!

 Psa 34:8

O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him.

[Neighbor]

15 hours ago, itty-bitty lamb said:

But i think that a glass of milk is helpful to have on the side to help swallow down the meat.

Oh no Mr. Bill! 

Do not mix meat and milk, and  you certainly won't be putting it into your coffee! Right?

https://www.thetorah.com/article/prohibition-of-meat-and-milk-its-origins-in-the-text

 

[Neighbor]

7 hours ago, Willa said:

 She once compared God to a piece os chocolate.  It can be analyzed chemically. You can know the recipe for making it.  But until you have tasted it..........Taste and see that the Lord is good!

Hi Interesting, thanks for sharing of how it affected you in a very positive manner. But to share from my own mind's eye reading it reminded me of something equally profound from the Movie Forrest Gump. "My mama always said, 'Life was like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get.'" -Forrest

Now while interesting and even humorous, the wisdom of Forrest's mother as expressed within the movie script was not what I would think of as valuable for application of God's will in my life. And therein is the danger, as I see it, of the allegorical and the analogical presentation instead of the actual word of God.

[itty-bitty lamb]

7 hours ago, Neighbor said:

Oh no Mr. Bill! 

Do not mix meat and milk, and  you certainly won't be putting it into your coffee! Right?

https://www.thetorah.com/article/prohibition-of-meat-and-milk-its-origins-in-the-text

 

Figure of speech there, in my post.

But yes, i'm not a Jew, and ive never felt a conviction from the Lord when i mix meat and milk.

Who is Bill?

[Neighbor]

2 hours ago, itty-bitty lamb said:

Who is Bill?

 It is silly humor  from  the past  -early and mid 1970's

Mr. Bill  is the clay figurine that used to be featured in the early  years Saturday Night Live tv presentations. He would always  end up haplessly in trouble  over relatively mundane issues.

I can identify with Mr. Bill as I tend to have a left handed brain and find myself seeing things a bit differently than most of the world's right handers.

[Neighbor]

On 11/29/2023 at 4:09 PM, other one said:

I don't think I could agree with using no analogies.  I think it would depend on who you are talking to.  The Bible is full of concepts, and if you don't understand the customs and language of the time the Bible was penned and translated, sometimes you would have to have a long history lesson just to understand the concept of what is being said or done to get the person to understand.

Ah exactly! A real history lesson, one that reveals the context of the Bible presentation  and also tells of who the recipients were how it was then used and may potentially be utilized today as well. I tend to credit all as having the ability to do just that by the aid of the Holy Spirit's lead, as each of us prayerfully reads and studies the word of God, the Bible.

To take that  and instead concoct, within a few minutes of pondering, some so called analogy or make it allegory, to my way  of thinking  is a cheating of one's self from the value of God's word with it's multilayered  wisdoms  commands and precepts that may be applied to good benefit from God.

To think God's word is too tough and therefore a dumbed down version of God's commands is necessary is, to me an errant thought, one that in reality is saying the indwelling by God the Holy Spirit cannot  bring reveal of God's word as inspired by God.

God's word - IMO- should not be treated so very casually as to not dig in  the actual word that has been preserved for us for today as it has been right along through the centuries.

Yes I know I am holding a minority opinion here, but that is okay. I do appreciate the sharing here by several others so far! Maybe I will learn to appreciated  what seems to me to be a kind of a Cliff Notes highlights of principles from God through paraphrasing of  principles via short  essay or  through the uninspired by God words of men and women, then again maybe not. I think all of us, without exception, are capable through the Holy Spirit of seriously benefitting from the actual word itself doing so in a manner that we may apply it well in our own lives.