uncle_mike Posted December 15, 2023 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 20 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/10/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted December 15, 2023 12 hours ago, one.opinion said: That may be your understanding, but it is far from accurate. Far too many conservative Christians have been led to believe that a commitment to a 144 hour creation period roughly 6000 years ago is essential to their faith. When young people grow up with this false test of “correct” faith is contradicted by scientific evidence, it leads to a tragic and unnecessary faith crisis, often with highly regrettable outcomes. There are places in the Bible, other than Genesis, that say God created everything in 6 days. The Holy Spirit is the Author of the Bible. If the younger people are not viewing the Word of God the same because of Science. That means Science has been a tool that Satan has used to deceive Followers of God. In Biblical comparison, Science, would be as equal to Rebellion. The same as Witchcraft. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one.opinion Posted December 15, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,240 Content Per Day: 2.10 Reputation: 1,356 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 15, 2023 5 hours ago, Tristen said: It would be more accurate to claim that the elegant complexity of life (including the DNA code) is a strong indicator that a rational, sentient Designer created life. 100% agree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one.opinion Posted December 15, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,240 Content Per Day: 2.10 Reputation: 1,356 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 15, 2023 3 hours ago, uncle_mike said: That means Science has been a tool that Satan has used to deceive Followers of God. In Biblical comparison, Science, would be as equal to Rebellion. The same as Witchcraft. Not at all - science does not point away from God, but illustrates His majesty, creativity, and His power that defies human imagination. After all, science is the study of the physical work of His hands in the form of living things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle_mike Posted December 16, 2023 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 20 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/10/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted December 16, 2023 5 hours ago, one.opinion said: Not at all - science does not point away from God, but illustrates His majesty, creativity, and His power that defies human imagination. After all, science is the study of the physical work of His hands in the form of living things. Before Adam sinned, he was perfect. His mind was perfect. With his perfect mind, he named everything. Look what he said about Eve. 23 And the man said: 'This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.' If Evolution was the Process of Creation, Adam, had the mind to detect this. His mind was perfect. But nowhere while naming everything does he say, this once was and now has become. He actually verifies God's Own spoken words and Adam was not there when God created everything before him. I believe that You believe Science points to these attributes about God. But I see no evidence based upon what we are able to read about Adam before he sinned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one.opinion Posted December 16, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,240 Content Per Day: 2.10 Reputation: 1,356 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 16, 2023 21 minutes ago, uncle_mike said: Before Adam sinned, he was perfect. His mind was perfect. With his perfect mind, he named everything. Look what he said about Eve. The Bible never makes that claim. Where did you come up with that? 24 minutes ago, uncle_mike said: If Evolution was the Process of Creation, Adam, had the mind to detect this. This speculation is based on an erroneous assumption. God said His creation of humanity was “very good”, not perfect. 22 minutes ago, uncle_mike said: I believe that You believe Science points to these attributes about God. Of course I do. I’m pretty sure we all do here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle_mike Posted December 16, 2023 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 20 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/10/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted December 16, 2023 (edited) 27 minutes ago, one.opinion said: The Bible never makes that claim. Where did you come up with that? Had Adam not sinned, he would not have physically died. He would still be living. So, he was perfect. 27 minutes ago, one.opinion said: This speculation is based on an erroneous assumption. God said His creation of humanity was “very good”, not perfect. Very Good is still a good term for someone created to live forever if they did not sin. But perfect is more adequate because being able to physically live forever is perfection. 27 minutes ago, one.opinion said: Of course I do. I’m pretty sure we all do here. Possibly in the areas of Biology, Chemistry, Mathematics, Metallurgy, Botany, and such. But how we arrived here, why? Edited December 16, 2023 by uncle_mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one.opinion Posted December 16, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,240 Content Per Day: 2.10 Reputation: 1,356 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 16, 2023 2 minutes ago, uncle_mike said: Had Adam not sinned, he would not have physically died. He would still be living. So, he was perfect. Why do you suppose that God didn’t call His creation of humanity “perfect” if that would have been a better description than “very good”? Additionally, do you think it possible that a perfect human could sin? That doesn’t sound very perfect to me. It is certainly possible that the death brought on by sin is spiritual, and not physical. I still believe the conclusion that humanity was not perfect is unwarranted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle_mike Posted December 16, 2023 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 20 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/10/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted December 16, 2023 (edited) 53 minutes ago, one.opinion said: Why do you suppose that God didn’t call His creation of humanity “perfect” if that would have been a better description than “very good”? God knew Adam would sin and it fits the "Plan" God had in place. He was planning on becoming one of us, dying for us, before Genesis 1:1 ever existed. 53 minutes ago, one.opinion said: Additionally, do you think it possible that a perfect human could sin? That doesn’t sound very perfect to me. Adam was not deceived like Eve was. He intentionally ate the forbidden fruit. But He could have refused and stopped Eve. So, it was God's intention that he did sin or he would not have. 53 minutes ago, one.opinion said: It is certainly possible that the death brought on by sin is spiritual, and not physical. I still believe the conclusion that humanity was not perfect is unwarranted. Where in the Bible does it claim had Adam not sinned he would still have physically died? Edited December 16, 2023 by uncle_mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one.opinion Posted December 16, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,240 Content Per Day: 2.10 Reputation: 1,356 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 16, 2023 50 minutes ago, uncle_mike said: God knew Adam would sin and it fits the "Plan" God had in place. He was planning on becoming one of us, dying for us, before Genesis 1:1 ever existed. That still sounds not at all like a perfect creation. This argument is not making a strong case for perfect humanity. God never called His creation of humanity perfect and now you argue that God’s intent in creation of humans was to lead the Son to a brutal death. No, this is not convincing at all as a case for the perfect creation of humanity. 56 minutes ago, uncle_mike said: Adam was not deceived like Eve was. He intentionally ate the forbidden fruit. But He could have refused and stopped Eve. So, it was God's intention that he did sin or he would not have. The case of humanity = perfect creation is getting even worse. 57 minutes ago, uncle_mike said: Where in the Bible does it claim had Adam not sinned he would still would have physically died? It is inconsistent to claim (without Biblical statement) that humans were created perfect, but then request a specific Biblical claim for a separate idea. There is not a direct Biblical statement that says that Adam would have died without sin. There is however, God directly warning Adam that he would die the day he ate the forbidden fruit and then not physically dying that day. The implication is that the death that was experienced was spiritual. Additionally, we have consistent observation and logic to show us that humans die and no clear reason to assume that humans were ever created to be eternal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle_mike Posted December 16, 2023 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 20 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/10/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted December 16, 2023 33 minutes ago, one.opinion said: That still sounds not at all like a perfect creation. This argument is not making a strong case for perfect humanity. God never called His creation of humanity perfect and now you argue that God’s intent in creation of humans was to lead the Son to a brutal death. No, this is not convincing at all as a case for the perfect creation of humanity. The case of humanity = perfect creation is getting even worse. It is inconsistent to claim (without Biblical statement) that humans were created perfect, but then request a specific Biblical claim for a separate idea. There is not a direct Biblical statement that says that Adam would have died without sin. There is however, God directly warning Adam that he would die the day he ate the forbidden fruit and then not physically dying that day. The implication is that the death that was experienced was spiritual. Additionally, we have consistent observation and logic to show us that humans die and no clear reason to assume that humans were ever created to be eternal. In Heaven, part of being perfect is you will never have a sin nature again. If you begin life without a sin nature, how is that not perfect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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