Enoch's DEATH is in Hebrews

[Serving]

1 minute ago, AFlameOfFire said:

I sort of forgot the reason I posted it because it was in the discussion of death and the question come to me after Sister had proposed something I never considered concerning pain in death in someway. Which  was followed up by me in trying to seek some affirmation in what she might have shared when come the question regarding the pains of death in various ways and, in what way were the pains of death "loosed", or in what way does it refer to the sting of death (and "where" is its sting also) because in the context of that is the law and sin there as well.

I don't really look for full explanations to things, just something kicked back to me in a place or two using the scriptures where I can find my way through it and convince myself of whatever it might be speaking of.

The question sort of sprang out from your post through someone else's answer which made me think of these other places.

I don't even know what I am asking, but go with that, sounds good

 

 

Hahaha,

No no, like me, you like to work things out yourself, so far be it from me to ruin your fun .. you probably got an answer anyway .. maybe, maybe not?

Tell you what, if you can be bothered, doesn't faze me either way btw .. did you already ask yourself that question? Which resurrection he's speaking of?

Just curious.

[Serving]

18 minutes ago, AFlameOfFire said:

I sort of forgot the reason I posted it because it was in the discussion of death and the question come to me after Sister had proposed something I never considered concerning pain in death in someway. Which  was followed up by me in trying to seek some affirmation in what she might have shared when come the question regarding the pains of death in various ways and, in what way were the pains of death "loosed", or in what way does it refer to the sting of death (and "where" is its sting also) because in the context of that is the law and sin there as well.

I don't really look for full explanations to things, just something kicked back to me in a place or two using the scriptures where I can find my way through it and convince myself of whatever it might be speaking of.

The question sort of sprang out from your post through someone else's answer which made me think of these other places.

I don't even know what I am asking, but go with that, sounds good

 

 

Oh, Marilyn posted for you ..

All good, after the effort Marilyn put in I'll just leave you with it.

Have a good one. 

Edited December 24, 2023 by Serving

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

3 minutes ago, Serving said:

Hahaha,

No no, like me, you like to work things out yourself, so far be it from me to ruin your fun .. you probably got an answer anyway .. maybe, maybe not?

Tell you what, if you can be bothered, doesn't faze me either way btw .. did you already ask yourself that question? Which resurrection he's speaking of?

Just curious.

We are to walk in the likeness of his resurrection now, but we know there is a resurrection of the just and unjust, and that one where being tortured part and not desiring release for a better one made me wonder a little as to "which one" (when comparing) especially in the part where someone is sawn asunder, where I highly doubt it pertains to this life I am thinking. So that's pretty much out, but the place it speaks of these things also includes women who received back their dead (which pertained to their dead in this life). So it was a kind of mish mash of things (and the Mac book references I fell upon looking at it) I just never really looked at, and think out loud sometimes when I should not.

But I understand what you mean, you really do not want to "be taught" when discussing on a online forum, because if you wanted that sort of thing you can just do a Google search and comb through a bunch of approved commentaries from every known expert out there. You want scriptures (well at least I do). 

So when I ask, I am pretty much saying, just throw me a bone on this thing and I will do as I did with Sister and take what she posted in the scripture and further search out how its possible to connect what she pointed out to me, and so those other two scriptures surfaced and that better resurrection thing, and "there you go" that's how things start rolling right along and the Spirit often takes it from there.

Throw out a bone or two on which you feel its speaking to.

Because I wouldn't mind being tortured in something (I wouldn't chose the rack though) but maybe something else, like being tortured by a persons overbearing personality or something like that,  if I can put up and shut up just to get something better later on, I just didn't know this option was open to me. Know what I mean?

 

 

[Serving]

2 hours ago, AFlameOfFire said:

We are to walk in the likeness of his resurrection now, but we know there is a resurrection of the just and unjust, and that one where being tortured part and not desiring release for a better one made me wonder a little as to "which one" (when comparing) especially in the part where someone is sawn asunder, where I highly doubt it pertains to this life I am thinking. So that's pretty much out, but the place it speaks of these things also includes women who received back their dead (which pertained to their dead in this life). So it was a kind of mish mash of things (and the Mac book references I fell upon looking at it) I just never really looked at, and think out loud sometimes when I should not.

But I understand what you mean, you really do not want to "be taught" when discussing on a online forum, because if you wanted that sort of thing you can just do a Google search and comb through a bunch of approved commentaries from every known expert out there. You want scriptures (well at least I do). 

So when I ask, I am pretty much saying, just throw me a bone on this thing and I will do as I did with Sister and take what she posted in the scripture and further search out how its possible to connect what she pointed out to me, and so those other two scriptures surfaced and that better resurrection thing, and "there you go" that's how things start rolling right along and the Spirit often takes it from there.

Throw out a bone or two on which you feel its speaking to.

Because I wouldn't mind being tortured in something (I wouldn't chose the rack though) but maybe something else, like being tortured by a persons overbearing personality or something like that,  if I can put up and shut up just to get something better later on, I just didn't know this option was open to me. Know what I mean?

 

 

I was originally speaking about one thing, but something occurred to me when in the process of answering you earlier of which I never considered before.

This is part of it, not what I realized tonight, but connected to it .. you probably won't agree, that's okay .. but you asked for a bone thrown your way after all .. these are just my thoughts laid out .. my opinion .. I could be wrong.

Romans 8:11
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Which Spirit?

Galatians 4:6
And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

More specific still :

Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Spirit of Christ was not in the world .. ever (hear me out to understand what I mean) .. until Pentecost .. that Holy living essence sent to dwell & grow within the saints.

The Holy Spirit sent forth to gaff with our souls that James spoke of .. that living essence of Christ's Spirit sent to grow within all who believe and teaches us the gospel of Christ and more. 

For convenience sake, lets call this Spirit of Christ sent into the world at Pentecost, Holy Spirit version 2.0

Version 2.0 being infused with, lets say, the gospel of Christ .. just imagine that only H/S version 2.0 is used to raise us right .. O.T version 1.0 needs to be upgraded within those of old for whom it dwelt within during O.T times, so H/S 2.0 is needed for Romans 8:9 & 11 to take effect.

Meaning, those seeking a better resurrection which we were chatting about, who never had the Spirit of His Son in them .. must first go through Ezekiel 37, whose raised up mortal bodies enter the Millennial Kingdom for to not only receive the Spirit of His Son in them as we hopefully all have, but to learn His doctrine too  .. because again, they have Holy Spirit version 1.0, so to speak .. and again, 1.0 did not have the gospel of His Son infused within "it" .. this is why they are all brought back in the flesh and not in the spirit like Christ's saints are at the 2nd coming.

Again, see Ezekiel 37, the whole chapter .. a few mysteries in there to be found.

And all of that led me to something that didn't occur to me before tonight .. something that that prophecy was not talking about.

And I need to think about this new realization a bit more .. it directly ties in with "Better resurrection" and questions I never thought of before.

Again, with what I said above .. you might agree, you might not.

Either way, this has been very fruitful for me .. thanks Flame.

 

Edited December 25, 2023 by Serving

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

28 minutes ago, Serving said:

I was originally speaking about one thing, but something occurred to me when in the process of answering you earlier of which I never considered before.

This is part of it, not what I realized tonight, but connected to it .. you probably won't agree, that's okay .. but you asked for a bone thrown your way after all .. these are just my thoughts laid out .. my opinion .. I could be wrong.

Romans 8:11
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Which Spirit?

Galatians 4:6
And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

More specific still :

Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Spirit of Christ was not in the world .. ever (hear me out to understand what I mean) .. until Pentecost .. that Holy living essence sent to dwell & grow within the saints.

The Holy Spirit sent forth to gaff with our souls that James spoke of .. that living essence of Christ's Spirit sent to grow within all who believe and teaches us the gospel of Christ and more. 

For convenience sake, lets call this Spirit of Christ sent into the world at Pentecost, Holy Spirit version 2.0

Version 2.0 being infused with, lets say, the gospel of Christ .. just imagine that only H/S version 2.0 is used to raise us right .. O.T version 1.0 needs to be upgraded within those of old for whom it dwelt within during O.T times, so H/S 2.0 is needed for Romans 8:9 & 11 to take effect.

Meaning, those seeking a better resurrection which we were chatting about, who never had the Spirit of His Son in them .. must first go through Ezekiel 37, whose raised up mortal bodies enter the Millennial Kingdom for to not only receive the Spirit of His Son in them as we hopefully all have, but to learn His doctrine too  .. because again, they have Holy Spirit version 1.0, so to speak .. and again, 1.0 did not have the gospel of His Son infused within "it" .. this is why they are all brought back in the flesh and not in the spirit like Christ's saints are at the 2nd coming.

Again, see Ezekiel 37, the whole chapter .. a few mysteries in there to be found.

And all of that led me to something that didn't occur to me before tonight .. something that that prophecy was not talking about.

And I need to think about this new realization a bit more .. it directly ties in with "Better resurrection" and questions I never thought of before.

Again, with what I said above .. you might agree, you might not.

Either way, this has been very fruitful for me .. thanks Flame.

 

Thanks for your input Serving, I will consider it, I can't say one way or the other yet but I do appreciate you giving me something to look at. 

[Marilyn C]

On 12/18/2023 at 2:33 AM, Serving said:

 

If we can prove that Enoch died .. then the book of Enoch is proven a false heresy, a doctrine of demons .. something to be scorned and rejected by the followers of the Lord .. but only if we can prove Enoch did in fact DIE.

Now take note of these :

Hebrews 11:1-13

1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

And what happened to all of these above?

13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

=======

So Enoch died after all .. but the book of Enoch claims he did not die .. this means one thing and one thing only .. that the book of Enoch is a false testimony .. it is a LIE.

We can not dispute Hebrews 11, it is as plain as day .. no matter how much you like that book of Enoch, of whose doctrines you mixed with God's written word .. it is now incumbent on us all to fully reject that heretical book and any teachings we have mixed with God's written word .. and especially the ones mixed with God's prophecies .. we must purge them all away, we no longer have excuse to endorse such a writing .. so don't.

The book of Enoch lied .. 

There is no longer any excuse.

 

 

Hi Serving,

I like how you use scripture to explain scripture. Too often we can try and nut things out ourselves when God has already explained what He means.

[Marilyn C]

2 hours ago, Serving said:

I was originally speaking about one thing, but something occurred to me when in the process of answering you earlier of which I never considered before.

This is part of it, not what I realized tonight, but connected to it .. you probably won't agree, that's okay .. but you asked for a bone thrown your way after all .. these are just my thoughts laid out .. my opinion .. I could be wrong.

Romans 8:11
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Which Spirit?

Galatians 4:6
And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

More specific still :

Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Spirit of Christ was not in the world .. ever (hear me out to understand what I mean) .. until Pentecost .. that Holy living essence sent to dwell & grow within the saints.

The Holy Spirit sent forth to gaff with our souls that James spoke of .. that living essence of Christ's Spirit sent to grow within all who believe and teaches us the gospel of Christ and more. 

For convenience sake, lets call this Spirit of Christ sent into the world at Pentecost, Holy Spirit version 2.0

Version 2.0 being infused with, lets say, the gospel of Christ .. just imagine that only H/S version 2.0 is used to raise us right .. O.T version 1.0 needs to be upgraded within those of old for whom it dwelt within during O.T times, so H/S 2.0 is needed for Romans 8:9 & 11 to take effect.

Meaning, those seeking a better resurrection which we were chatting about, who never had the Spirit of His Son in them .. must first go through Ezekiel 37, whose raised up mortal bodies enter the Millennial Kingdom for to not only receive the Spirit of His Son in them as we hopefully all have, but to learn His doctrine too  .. because again, they have Holy Spirit version 1.0, so to speak .. and again, 1.0 did not have the gospel of His Son infused within "it" .. this is why they are all brought back in the flesh and not in the spirit like Christ's saints are at the 2nd coming.

Again, see Ezekiel 37, the whole chapter .. a few mysteries in there to be found.

And all of that led me to something that didn't occur to me before tonight .. something that that prophecy was not talking about.

And I need to think about this new realization a bit more .. it directly ties in with "Better resurrection" and questions I never thought of before.

Again, with what I said above .. you might agree, you might not.

Either way, this has been very fruitful for me .. thanks Flame.

 

Hi Serving,

I agree with the first part of your comments, and understand you are trying to get those who had gone before to have what we have - the Lord`s very own divine nature and glorified body. However, they will not be given that for it is only for the Body of Christ to serve in the third heaven.

The Old Testament saints will be given a body fit for their serving in the city promised them in the Universal realm where it comes down out of heaven to rule above the earth and shine the glory of God there. 

Have you seen this verse - `God having provided something better for us...` (Heb. 11: 40)

I will write a new thread on that and hope you can join me since you are looking into these things.