enoob57 Posted February 4 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,238 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,491 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Online Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted February 4 7 minutes ago, Mr. M said: Because they desire a personal relationship with the living God. Through flesh or through spirit? Because if it is flesh we want our earthy senses involved so as it is real to those senses... Because if it is s/Spirit then we are satisfied with the food of Scripture and our senses are unimportant to us because that will pass away and be forgotten... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. M Posted February 4 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 743 Topics Per Day: 1.34 Content Count: 3,893 Content Per Day: 7.03 Reputation: 1,798 Days Won: 12 Joined: 10/28/2022 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/18/1956 Author Share Posted February 4 8 minutes ago, enoob57 said: Mr M is this what you are saying? Certainly! Let’s explore the difference between “Scripture” and “Rhema”: Scripture (Logos): Definition: Logos refers principally to the total inspired Word of God and to Jesus, who is often referred to as the living Logos. Characteristics: Objective: It encompasses the entire body of written Scripture, including the Bible. Universal: It applies to all believers and serves as a foundation for doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness. Examples: “In the beginning was the Word [logos], and the Word [logos] was with God, and the Word [logos] was God” (John 1:1). “The seed is the word [logos] of God” (Luke 8:11). “Holding forth the word [logos] of life” (Philippians 2:16). Rhema (The Spoken Word): Definition: Rhema refers to a specific verse or portion of Scripture that the Holy Spirit brings to our attention with application to a current situation or need for direction. Characteristics: Subjective: It is a spoken word—an utterance—that has personal relevance. Application: It is often revealed through prayer, Bible reading, or even prophetic words. Examples: When a verse stands out to you during prayer or study, it becomes a rhema—a living utterance from God. “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness” (II Timothy 3:16). In summary, Scripture (Logos) encompasses the entire written Word of God, while Rhema refers to specific verses or portions that the Holy Spirit highlights for personal application. Both are essential for our spiritual growth and understanding. I agree that the Holy Spirit does highlight scriptures for personal application. As I already pointed out earlier, I have heard His Voice many times instructing me, correcting me, using familiar verses. However, this is not the proper definition of rhema. The Greek word rhema is used many times in the NT, such as the ones I cited earlier, and the only way someone reading the Holy Scriptures would know this is by "studying to show yourself approved", because translators render both logos and rhema as "word". Rhema means "spoken word", and if translated as such, it would enrich the understanding of what Jesus meant by "from the mouth of (the living) God", who I most certainly hear from daily. It is kind of my thing, to listen first. Furthermore, the word "logos" means so much more than the banal translation "word", as it really conveys what was intended. This is demonstrated by The Logos, or Christ, teaching on the mount. Matthew 5:27 You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. In other words, the scriptures record what God said in the past. The Logos conveys what He intended. Some use "reason", as in Peter: 1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason (logos) for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear; The Greek writer Luke refers to his Gospel as logos in his introduction to Acts. 1:1 The former account (logos) I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach. In which he lays out his intent: Luke 1:1 Inasmuch as many have taken in hand to set in order a narrative of those things which have been fulfilled among us, 2 just as those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word delivered them to us, 3 it seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write to you an orderly account, most excellent Theophilus, 4 that you may know the certainty of those things in which you were instructed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. M Posted February 4 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 743 Topics Per Day: 1.34 Content Count: 3,893 Content Per Day: 7.03 Reputation: 1,798 Days Won: 12 Joined: 10/28/2022 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/18/1956 Author Share Posted February 4 7 minutes ago, enoob57 said: Through flesh or through spirit? Because if it is flesh we want our earthy senses involved so as it is real to those senses... Because if it is s/Spirit then we are satisfied with the food of Scripture and our senses are unimportant to us because that will pass away and be forgotten... This is how Paul conveys this: Romans 8:16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God. This is how the Word of God conveys this to Ezekiel: 3:10 Moreover He said to me: “Son of man, receive into your heart all My words that I speak to you, and hear with your ears. Finally, this is a more detailed explanation from Paul, which I have experienced by faith, believing what we are taught. That the Holy Spirit speaks directly to our spirit, and we come to receive this instruction as a familiar Voice. This as the thread title states, is receiving wisdom from above. 1 Co 2: 10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. 13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted February 4 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,238 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,491 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Online Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted February 4 27 minutes ago, Mr. M said: I agree that the Holy Spirit does highlight scriptures for personal application. As I already pointed out earlier, I have heard His Voice many times instructing me, correcting me, using familiar verses. However, this is not the proper definition of rhema. The Greek word rhema is used many times in the NT, such as the ones I cited earlier, and the only way someone reading the Holy Scriptures would know this is by "studying to show yourself approved", because translators render both logos and rhema as "word". Rhema means "spoken word", and if translated as such, it would enrich the understanding of what Jesus meant by "from the mouth of (the living) God", who I most certainly hear from daily. It is kind of my thing, to listen first. Furthermore, the word "logos" means so much more than the banal translation "word", as it really conveys what was intended. This is demonstrated by The Logos, or Christ, teaching on the mount. Matthew 5:27 You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. In other words, the scriptures record what God said in the past. The Logos conveys what He intended. Some use "reason", as in Peter: 1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason (logos) for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear; The Greek writer Luke refers to his Gospel as logos in his introduction to Acts. 1:1 The former account (logos) I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach. In which he lays out his intent: Luke 1:1 Inasmuch as many have taken in hand to set in order a narrative of those things which have been fulfilled among us, 2 just as those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word delivered them to us, 3 it seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write to you an orderly account, most excellent Theophilus, 4 that you may know the certainty of those things in which you were instructed. The spoken Word is the written Word: Habakkuk 2:2 ESV And the Lord answered me: “Write the vision; make it plain on tablets, so he may run who reads it. Revelation 1:19 ESV Write therefore the things that you have seen, those that are and those that are to take place after this. Jeremiah 30:2-3 ESV “Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel: Write in a book all the words that I have spoken to you. For behold, days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will restore the fortunes of my people, Israel and Judah, says the Lord, and I will bring them back to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall take possession of it.” Revelation 3:3 ESV Remember, then, what you received and heard. Keep it, and repent. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come against you. Psalm 119:105 ESV Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 ESV All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. Hebrews 4:12 ESV For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. Numbers 33:2 ESV Moses wrote down their starting places, stage by stage, by command of the Lord, and these are their stages according to their starting places. 2 Peter 1:21 ESV For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael37 Posted February 4 Group: Servant Followers: 21 Topic Count: 243 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 6,975 Content Per Day: 3.27 Reputation: 4,894 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/05/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/23/1954 Share Posted February 4 On 1/26/2024 at 3:38 AM, Mr. M said: The ability to receive wisdom from above by the Spirit. Ephesians 4:20 But you have not so learned Christ, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness. 1 Corinthians 2: 13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ. James 3: 17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy. 18 Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace. Admin Note: Excellent topic and well-chosen verses, @Mr. M I have prefixed the title with the word FAITH, which I was guided to do by wisdom from above. Joh 16:13-15 However, when the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth. For He will not speak on His own, but He will speak what He hears, and He will declare to you what is to come. (14) He will glorify Me by taking from what is Mine and disclosing it to you. (15) Everything that belongs to the Father is Mine. That is why I said that the Spirit will take from what is Mine and disclose it to you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. M Posted February 5 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 743 Topics Per Day: 1.34 Content Count: 3,893 Content Per Day: 7.03 Reputation: 1,798 Days Won: 12 Joined: 10/28/2022 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/18/1956 Author Share Posted February 5 15 minutes ago, enoob57 said: The spoken Word is the written Word: It is not that simple. Both rhema and logos are used in the NT and in the LXX of the OT and there is a distinction, far beyond the scope of this thread. All I know is that I read God's Word, and I hear Him speak. This is for me the hearing of faith. Sola Scriptura? C'est la vie. He is the God of the living. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted February 5 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,238 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,491 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Online Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted February 5 25 minutes ago, Mr. M said: It is not that simple. Both rhema and logos are used in the NT and in the LXX of the OT and there is a distinction, far beyond the scope of this thread. All I know is that I read God's Word, and I hear Him speak. This is for me the hearing of faith. Sola Scriptura? C'est la vie. He is the God of the living. Here's God definition of faith's source: Romans 10:17 (KJV) [17] So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:8 (KJV) [8] But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; This is the written Word and God says we are to take it to all the world: Mark 16:15 (KJV) [15] And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. What you suggest is subjective spiritism and it is witnessing that the objective faith delivered once to the saints is insufficient and needs more... I reject this solely on the basis of God written Word: 2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV) [15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. [16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [17] That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. bottom line your are teaching to not solely trust in the objective written Word but also a subjective inner voice that which is of a sensual nature that stems from flesh you claim as spirit... The written Word is an objective work of The Holy Spirit and we are instructed to try the spirits with it... 1 John 4:1 (KJV) [4:1] Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted February 5 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,238 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,491 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Online Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted February 5 The intent of Jesus is clear in this: John 6:63 (KJV) [63] It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. These Words Jesus spoke are delivered to us by Scripture: John 14:26 (KJV) [26] But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. Notice 'I have said unto you' NOT I will say unto you... I think this is an important distinction and with additional support from: Jude 3 (KJV) [3] Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. NOT will continue to deliver you... Your witness just doesn't fit with Scripture no matter how you want it to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. M Posted February 5 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 743 Topics Per Day: 1.34 Content Count: 3,893 Content Per Day: 7.03 Reputation: 1,798 Days Won: 12 Joined: 10/28/2022 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/18/1956 Author Share Posted February 5 7 minutes ago, enoob57 said: Here's God definition of faith's source: 7 minutes ago, enoob57 said: What you suggest is subjective spiritism and it is witnessing that the objective faith delivered once to the saints is insufficient and needs more... I reject this solely on the basis of God written Word: 7 minutes ago, enoob57 said: bottom line your are teaching to not solely trust in the objective written Word but also a subjective inner voice that which is of a sensual nature that stems from flesh you claim as spirit... The written Word is an objective work of The Holy Spirit and we are instructed to try the spirits with it... What I am teaching is that the Holy Spirit imparts wisdom Luke 21: 12 But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and rulers for My name’s sake. 13 But it will turn out for you as an occasion for testimony. 14 Therefore settle it in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer; 15 for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict or resist. Acts 6:8 And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and signs among the people. 9 Then there arose some from what is called the Synagogue of the Freedmen (Cyrenians, Alexandrians, and those from Cilicia and Asia), disputing with Stephen. 10 And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the Spirit by which he spoke. Ephesians 1: 15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints, 16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers; 17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him: 18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints. Paul is not referring to scriptures, he is talking about our relationship to the Lord, the Holy Spirit. Your false claims against what I am teaching and are fully supported by scriptures border on slander. I don't know where you came up with the grossly mistaken notion that our relationship with the Holy Spirit communicating to our spirit is sensual, and comes from some fleshly desire completely contradicting the scriptures that I have posted and you have ignored. I pray that the Lord is not blasphemed by this bizarre notion of a subjective spiritism rather than a living relationship with the living God. You should drop the subject really soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. M Posted February 5 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 743 Topics Per Day: 1.34 Content Count: 3,893 Content Per Day: 7.03 Reputation: 1,798 Days Won: 12 Joined: 10/28/2022 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/18/1956 Author Share Posted February 5 5 minutes ago, enoob57 said: These Words Jesus spoke are delivered to us by Scripture: John 14:26 (KJV) [26] But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. Notice 'I have said unto you' NOT I will say unto you... I think this is an important distinction and with additional support from: Jude 3 (KJV) [3] Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. NOT will continue to deliver you... Your witness just doesn't fit with Scripture no matter how you want it to! The scriptures which I have presented and you have ignored fully support what I have taught. Surely the Holy Spirit was necessary to bring what Jesus taught to the remembrance of the apostles. So now you have them in four Gospels. You can memorize every word, every red letter. But it remains for the Holy Spirit to bring to our remembrance every word we have read in the moment. If you have never experienced this in your walk with the Lord, I have nothing but pity for you. Feel free to dismiss my teaching, as your opposition demonstrates an obvious bias against anything that you deem to be charismatic, and have closed your mind off. I have nothing more to say, and you do well to give yourself a rest. You have quoted the same scriptures four times now! I am sure any eager, interested party has received your wisdom. Thanks for your participation and contrary position. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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