WordSword Posted February 10 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 168 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,161 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 645 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/07/2010 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 10 24 minutes ago, NConly said: .Because "ALL BE Fulfilled" imo does not come till after Israel accepts Jesus as Messiah and also the Trib should complete the All fulfilled When Jesus died, the Law was fulfilled, which was that He finally paid for our sins (expiation). The Law has nothing concerning His resurrection and ascension, and is why it stopped at His death. His resurrection and ascension had to do with the Gospel, and is why there is no Gospel in the Law. The Law mainly spoke of His atonement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJK Posted February 10 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 43 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 3,349 Content Per Day: 7.77 Reputation: 1,305 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/01/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted February 10 4 minutes ago, WordSword said: When Jesus died, the Law was fulfilled, which was that He finally paid for our sins (expiation). This is something I was considering deeply while sleeping yesterday, so I have to ask (as I did to myself in my thoughts): What is the Law that was fulfilled and is now set aside? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordSword Posted February 10 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 168 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,161 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 645 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/07/2010 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 10 31 minutes ago, FJK said: This is something I was considering deeply while sleeping yesterday, so I have to ask (as I did to myself in my thoughts): What is the Law that was fulfilled and is now set aside? To fulfill the Law was to abide perfectly by it, which only the Lord Jesus could do. Anyone can obey the Law (e.g. the Decalogue), but it required being without sin to do it correctly; and nobody can say they are without sin, because possessing the old man or sin nature is having sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJK Posted February 10 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 43 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 3,349 Content Per Day: 7.77 Reputation: 1,305 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/01/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted February 10 6 minutes ago, WordSword said: To fulfill the Law was to abide perfectly by it, which only the Lord Jesus could do. Anyone can obey the Law (e.g. the Decalogue), but it required being without sin to do it correctly; and nobody can say they are without sin, because possessing the old man or sin nature is having sin. I understand that, but I should have clarified that I'm concerned with what Law has been set aside and no longer applies to us by his fulfillment of the Law by living a perfect life within it. I see this stated and spoken of by many calling themselves Christian, but each seems to fall short of presenting any kind of common understanding as to what it means in practice and what it doesn't mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdHoc Posted February 10 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,051 Content Per Day: 3.32 Reputation: 1,460 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/29/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted February 10 On 2/9/2024 at 4:17 PM, farouk said: But the Lord Jesus' priesthood is according to the word of the oath after the order of Mechizedek; His gloriously priesthood is not Levitical. On 2/9/2024 at 4:44 PM, WordSword said: It's my understanding that the breaking of a covenant by either side nullifies it. On 2/9/2024 at 4:50 PM, WordSword said: Jesus said the Law would not pass "till all be fulfilled" (Mat 5:18). Christ fulfilled the Law when He said "It is finished" (Jhn 19:30). Plus, there can be no old covenant and a new covenant. That's why "He taketh away the first, that He may establish the second" (Heb 10:9). Hi guys. Sorry I faded last night. May I join the discussion again. I would like to do so with a short summary of Hebrews. The Book was written (author unknown) to men who had been Jews and who had embraced Jesus. But the persecution and loss of worldly possessions (see Chapter 10:31-34) had led them to believe that it was better under the Law of Moses and were contemplating a return. The author of Hebrews proceeds to show the superiority of Christ over all things Jewish, and gives five serious warnings against turning back. So Moses and what he stands for is CONTRASTED with what Christ is to men. A Covenant is a legal document agreed upon by two parties. In it are duties and penalties. The penalties come into effect when one party fails in his/her duty. Far from being annulled by failure, a Contract/Covenant can lead to punitive measures. If you read Leviticus 26 and Deuteronomy 28 you can see the punitive measures if Israel broke the Law. And anyone who is familiar with history knows that all of them have come to pass ... and are still happening today. When Moses ratified the Covenant in Exodus 24:8 it was agreed that ISRAEL would fulfill the Law. Our Lord Jesus did fulfill the Law, but Israel did not. This can be seen in Luke 22:15-16. Even though our Lord fulfilled the rite of Passover, AND He fulfilled the reality of Passover by being the Passover Lamb, He says in Luke that it will only be fulfilled in the Kingdom - that is, when He returned to restore Israel. The law will not pass until Israel fulfills it. If you are still not sure, then consider why Zechariah 14:16 orders the survivors of Armageddon to go up annually to worship the Lord at Jerusalem AND keep the Feast of Tabernacles. The Book of Hebrews is not a treatise on the Law then and now. It is a CONTRAST of how the present achievements of Christ surpass those of Law. Is the order of Aaron abolished? NO! But is there a better Priesthood? YES! Were Israel privileged by the mediatorialship of angels? Yes, an angel is a powerful ally. But if Christ be your mediator ... how grand. David gets Jerusalem, but dies. Abraham has faith to wait for Jerusalem in resurrection. Who will choose animal sacrifices over the once-for-all sacrifice of Christ? Well .... if you have rejected Christ and you have Moses, you have to go with Moses. But Moses himself that God would raise up Christ -like Moses - and HIM shall the Jew obey (Deut.18:18-19). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordSword Posted February 10 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 168 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,161 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 645 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/07/2010 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 10 5 hours ago, FJK said: I understand that, but I should have clarified that I'm concerned with what Law has been set aside and no longer applies to us by his fulfillment of the Law by living a perfect life within it. I see this stated and spoken of by many calling themselves Christian, but each seems to fall short of presenting any kind of common understanding as to what it means in practice and what it doesn't mean. You mean no longer applies to the Jews, since it never applied to Gentiles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJK Posted February 10 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 43 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 3,349 Content Per Day: 7.77 Reputation: 1,305 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/01/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted February 10 18 minutes ago, WordSword said: You mean no longer applies to the Jews, since it never applied to Gentiles. Well, what are they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordSword Posted February 10 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 168 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,161 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 645 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/07/2010 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 10 1 hour ago, FJK said: Well, what are they? Not sure what you mean. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NConly Posted February 11 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,335 Content Per Day: 2.78 Reputation: 614 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/11/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted February 11 (edited) James 2 10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. Jews who reject Christ must keep whole law. The old Law never applied to Gentiles. Gal 5 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. James 2: 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Edited February 11 by NConly add Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJK Posted February 11 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 43 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 3,349 Content Per Day: 7.77 Reputation: 1,305 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/01/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted February 11 13 hours ago, WordSword said: Not sure what you mean. Thanks! To make it as direct as I know how without listing each individual law given in Torah, when the Law was set aside are you meaning all the laws of the Bible (In the Torah, the first Five books of the OT) or just some of them? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts