Questioning Posted March 24 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 79 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 26 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/02/2021 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 24 2 hours ago, warrior12 said: Well, you do have a choice . Democracy or The Gulag Archipelago , cause westen democracy is heading down that way with the current status quo. Isn't it great that we live in a country, and are on a forum where we are free to state our views? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted March 24 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 952 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,573 Content Per Day: 5.03 Reputation: 9,054 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted March 24 5 hours ago, Questioning said: The president is our employee. Not our leader. The USA's founders signed a document that established a Republic, not a democracy. They knew and fought over the consequences that would threaten al the people in the name of democracy; but that does not matter in the long run does it? In the long run Christians will still not have a "religion" anyway. There will be an absolute monarchy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted March 24 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 952 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,573 Content Per Day: 5.03 Reputation: 9,054 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted March 24 4 hours ago, Questioning said: It seems to me that becoming a christian nation would tend to divide our nation even further! ..."Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’; and ‘a man’s enemies will be those of his own household.’ He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it." -Yeshua Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted March 24 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 952 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,573 Content Per Day: 5.03 Reputation: 9,054 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted March 24 18 hours ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said: but morally he's the best option we have Morally the best we have? Oh my then are we as a nation ever in trouble! There is a third choice and likely even a fourth may arise. I am in support of and will vote for the third choice. I will no longer pick what's behind door number one, nor door number two. See what's behind door number three? That's what I am selecting. "Lord willing, and the creek don't rise" as the saying goes, we will have a real third choice amongst those limited choices in what we call elections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrior12 Posted March 24 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 54 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,428 Content Per Day: 0.88 Reputation: 1,516 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/05/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted March 24 4 hours ago, Questioning said: Isn't it great that we live in a country, and are on a forum where we are free to state our views? For now . The next couple of generations might change the landscape, so to speak. All the demands that, they be addressed by certain terms and equality of outcome vs equality of oppertunity will all come to friction head. We already see the future leaders thoughts and behaviour, well at least they have the upper hand for now anyway. All the progress humans have made in the development of what supposed to be a better social society has proven that the human mind is still not understood as thought of in higher learning. The verse below IMO is why the OP topic cannot be achieved. The carnal man wants his utopia now, while the Christian man thinks of his in eternity and thinks his morality practiced now is mandatory as a part of his journey to take him there. 1 Corinthians 2 English Standard Version 14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueFollowerOfChrist Posted March 24 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,039 Content Per Day: 1.62 Reputation: 589 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/26/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted March 24 10 hours ago, Questioning said: Hmmm. Were our nations fathers given a test to see how many were actually Christians? Do you have the results of that test? And since Thomas Jefferson highly edited his Bible, I question how he would have come out on the test. And back to here and now, how is it that a LOT of Christians are NOT for Project 2025?? Do you regard them as not really being Christian?? If so, who has been given the job of determining who is Christian, and who is not?? If you have the answer to that question, maybe you can solve the HUGE problem of 3 major sects of Christianity (Catholic, Protestant, Eastern Orthodox) and dozens and dozens of denominations, and all the independents who claim to be the true church. When Christians can't even unite themselves, how do you expect them to unite a nation?? It seems to me that becoming a christian nation would tend to divide our nation even further! Which sect, or denomination would we be?? Also, which Biblical "laws" would we follow? The teachings of Jesus? Or the Old Testament eye for eye thinking, and stoning children for being disobedient?? Or for gathering grain on the Sabbath, like Jesus had his followers to do?? Maybe it is just me, but it seems like deciding which Biblical laws we would follow would be one of the most chaotic and divisive endevors ever attempted in the halls of congress! I suggest we have complete separation of church and state. Let the churchs do their thing, and the state do their thing. Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God, the things that are God's. So obviously there was not a test given to see how many of our founding fathers were Christian. Obviously not all of them were. However if you actually take the time to read the writings of many of our founding fathers you will find than many of them did Believe In Christ, and believed that the Bible should be the foundation of our country. For example modern history books that have been corrupted will say that George Washington was a deist. This is 100% false as his own writing make numerous clear references to his faith in God and Christ. John Adams was also a very devout Christian man who had great faith in Jesus. In fact he famously stated that our constitution is specifically for a religious people and would not work for any other type. You mentioned Jefferson and I will admit he was probably not a Christian in the way that we would call someone a Christian today. However I will say it's funny that if the founders were not Christian, at least the majority, I think it pretty unlikely they would have put freedom of religion in the first of the amendments to the Constitution. If you truly want to know about America's Christian heritage, I suggest you watch a program called wall builders by David Barton where he presents literally thousands of documents written by the founders that show nearly unanimous faith in God at the founding of this nation. As far as denominations I think that is a straw man and a stumbling block. Most Christian denominations have the same morality code, do not steal do not lie do not murder. Unless of course you know of a denomination that says those things are not sinful. It is also a historical fact that since the founding of this country there has been a chaplain in the United States Senate and that for the first 200 years of American history the Bible was one of the textbooks that school children read from daily. The mythical separation of church and state as people understand it today did not actually exist by the very people who wrote the Constitution. The idea of removing prayer and a Bible from school would have been blasphemous to the founding fathers who wrote the actual Constitution. Most colleges for the first century of America's history were built specifically as Christian institutions primarily for the training of pastors and Christian workers, including America's oldest college Harvard University which dates back to the 1600s, and although secular to the core still has a Bible verse printed on its grounds in concrete. People who quote the first amendment two sites separation of church and state have never actually read the first amendment. Those who take a moment to actually read it we'll see quite clearly that the first amendment separation of church and state belief actually places restrictions and prohibitions on the government. The first amendment when read in context says that the government has no right to interfere with the church, not the other way around. Also the mythical phrase separation of church and state does not exist in any government document and certainly was not how the founders believed America should be operated. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueFollowerOfChrist Posted March 24 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,039 Content Per Day: 1.62 Reputation: 589 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/26/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted March 24 10 hours ago, Questioning said: I don't know how you measure morality, but from my years of study of Jesus and his teaching, and being a Behavioral Scientist, I would say he is the worst option we have. I measure morality by the standard God gives us in his word. For example Trump opposes abortion which God also does. Trump opposes gay rights which God also does. Trump supports Israel's sovereignty and right to exist which God also does. Trump supports religious freedom which God also does. Biden on the other hand supports gay rights which are an abomination to God. Biden supports abortion which is the mass murder of children which it is strongly condemned by God. Biden does not support religious freedom which has opened the door for religious persecution, something God would strongly disapprove of. Biden does not support the sovereignty or right to exist for Israel which is God's chosen country. So I find it strange that you would say the Trump is the worst choice when he falls more in line with Christian values than Biden does. I would never say the Trump is a Christian, however he does support many Christian values. So would you care to explain why you believe that Trump is the worst choice when he is the most moral choice that we currently have available? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueFollowerOfChrist Posted March 24 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,039 Content Per Day: 1.62 Reputation: 589 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/26/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted March 24 5 hours ago, Neighbor said: Morally the best we have? Oh my then are we as a nation ever in trouble! There is a third choice and likely even a fourth may arise. I am in support of and will vote for the third choice. I will no longer pick what's behind door number one, nor door number two. See what's behind door number three? That's what I am selecting. "Lord willing, and the creek don't rise" as the saying goes, we will have a real third choice amongst those limited choices in what we call elections. I understand your point completely. There is a reason America is called a two-party system despite the fact that we actually have many parties. Not since Millard Fillmore the 13th president of the United States has there been a president that was not either Democrat or Republican. Sadly third-party candidates have slim to no chance of winning any kind of an election. Both Republicans and Democrats for the majority are very faithful to their party and vote accordingly. I honestly don't think we will ever see a third party candidate win because you'd never be able to get millions and millions of people to break away from their traditional party to vote for a third party candidate. However I will say that out of Biden and Trump as the two options I don't know how anyone could vote for Biden and call themselves Christian. Everything Biden has done for the last 3 years has been against scripture and very opposed to the moral laws of God. Trump is not perfect by any means and I'm not really a fan of his personality and the way he talks, but his policies more closely line up with biblical morality and freedom of religion than any Democrat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueFollowerOfChrist Posted March 24 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,039 Content Per Day: 1.62 Reputation: 589 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/26/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted March 24 5 hours ago, Neighbor said: Morally the best we have? Oh my then are we as a nation ever in trouble! There is a third choice and likely even a fourth may arise. I am in support of and will vote for the third choice. I will no longer pick what's behind door number one, nor door number two. See what's behind door number three? That's what I am selecting. "Lord willing, and the creek don't rise" as the saying goes, we will have a real third choice amongst those limited choices in what we call elections. Another point that I would make that I just remembered, as this sadly America has shown that America will not vote for Christian candidates. Only a couple of times in my life have I actually seen a very devout Christian run for office and they had no chance of winning one of those options was Mike Huckabee former governor of Arkansas and before that Baptist minister. He would have ran the country from a completely biblical morality standpoint doing everything possible to outlaw abortion and gay rights and preserving absolute religious freedom. Oddly enough tens of millions of people in this country who call themselves Christian did not vote for the main Christian candidate which shows me that most Christians in America are Christian and name only. When it comes to showing evidence of their faith they are found quite lacking. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted March 24 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 952 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,573 Content Per Day: 5.03 Reputation: 9,054 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted March 24 2 hours ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said: ..."would have ran the country from a completely biblical morality standpoint doing everything possible to outlaw abortion and gay rights and preserving absolute religious freedom.".... Well though I am against abortion and am not of the alphabet of depravity titles that many associate themselves with, I do know one cannot have freedom and outlaw these activities and thoughts at the same time. Christianity cannot be forced on anyone. We are to be a bright light in contrast for sure; but the light of Christ Jesus does not extinguish the dark cloud of evilness by force of law. Christians are used to do so only by the power of the Holy Spirit, reaching out one by one by one in a otherwise fallen creation to share of the gospel message of Jesus. We are to love one another as we love God. never hating people for their state of mind and spirit. No matter what is wrong, within any person. God can fix it. For Christians to try to outlaw what is needed to be changed in one's heart and mind is counterproductive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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