CHRISTIAN NATIONALISM

[Questioning]

9 hours ago, Neighbor said:

The USA's founders signed a document that established a Republic,  not a democracy.

Republic or democracy is splitting hairs.  The president is elected to represent the people, not lead them, and If the majority doesn't want the president, he can be voted out of office.  We have a form of democracy.

9 hours ago, Neighbor said:

In the long run  Christians will still not have a "religion" anyway. There will be an absolute monarchy.

I share your fear of that.

[Jedi4Yahweh]

1 hour ago, Neighbor said:

Well though I am against abortion and am not of the alphabet of  depravity titles that many associate themselves with, I do know one cannot have freedom and outlaw these activities and thoughts at the same time.

Christianity cannot be forced on anyone.  We are to be a bright light in contrast for sure; but the light of Christ Jesus does not extinguish the dark cloud of evilness by force of law.

Christians  are used to do so only by the power of the Holy Spirit, reaching out one by one by one in a otherwise fallen creation to share of the gospel message of Jesus. We are to love one another  as we love God. never hating  people for their state of mind and spirit.

No matter what is wrong, within any person. God can fix it. For Christians to try to outlaw what is needed to be changed in one's heart and mind is counterproductive. 

I think there are universal moral laws that are also upheld by Judeo-Christian values that should be enforced such as:  Murder, Theft, Bearing False Witness, Rape, Marriage, Pedophilia to include pornography/sexualizing school children, Incest, etc... I don't think there is anyone in politics who is a Christian is advocating for religious laws outside of universal moral laws nor a state run religious system.  In fact, the constitution says congress shall make no law regarding religion and the practice there of. 

Edited March 24 by Jedi4Yahweh

[Questioning]

9 hours ago, Neighbor said:

..."Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword.  For I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’; and ‘a man’s enemies will be those of his own household.’ He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.  He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it."  -Yeshua

Did Jesus have the division among Christians in mind when he said that??

[Marathoner]

15 hours ago, Questioning said:

Who said the nation was "dominated" by a majority of christians?   Not me.  I do agree that the largest number of religious people in the USA at this time claim to be Christian.  And some would very much like to have domination over the nation.  Hopefully that will not happen.   Hopefully NO religion will ever have domination over us.  History shows that combining religion with government is a huge mistake.  

Neither of the candidates is satan, or the devil, or what ever you want to call that concept.  They are both human beings.  And it is NOT their job to "lead" you anywhere.  We live in a democracy, not a dictatorship, and there job is to make sure you have the freedom to worship ANY God you want to worship.  Or to not worship any god. 

Thinking a president "leads" us is thinking in authoritarian terms--not democratic.  The president is our employee.  Not our leader.

 

Indeed. We need only look toward the words of Christ to inform us about His teaching regarding leaders:

But as for you, do not be called Rabbi; for only One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers and sisters. And do not call anyone on earth your father; for only One is your Father, He who is in heaven. And do not be called leaders; for only One is your Leader, that is, Christ. (Matthew 23:8-10 NASB)

You touch upon another attribute of Christian Nationalism: declaring civil authorities whom their luminaries dislike as Satan... tools of Satan... and so on. This is the means by which chosen enemies are established; collective objects of hatred and scorn are useful in manipulating social groups who cling to a common non-kinship identity. We find CN narratives echoed in the rhetoric of many evangelical circles. Individuals do not have to identify as Christian Nationalists in order to sympathize with the movement. Sympathy is all that's required.

Authoritarianism is a foundational building block of the CN narrative. Favored men in positions of civil authority are cast as having been chosen by God; men who run afoul of CN sentimentality are cast as servants of Satan. 

[Jedi4Yahweh]

14 minutes ago, Questioning said:

Did Jesus have the division among Christians in mind when he said that??

I am sure he did...Jesus said that you will be thrown out of churches/assemblies/synagogues for his name sake.

These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended. They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me. [Jhn 16:1-3 KJV]

Edited March 24 by Jedi4Yahweh

[Neighbor]

4 minutes ago, Questioning said:

Did Jesus have the division among Christians in mind when he said that??

Yes I believe so! Plus it was not but a very very few years when the Holy Spirit revealed to the churches what we call Revelation with warnings to many about their already serious falling away from Jesus.

Do I think  Jesus  who is God the Son would be unaware of what has been foreknown and predestined from before the beginning? No I do not. Was He including Christians yes.

[Neighbor]

8 minutes ago, Questioning said:

Did Jesus have the division among Christians in mind when he said that??

Did He not have divisions amongst even the twelve Apostles? Was He aware of it? Yes he was. He had all in mind when He spoke, no matter who he might be addressing at any given moment and situation.

[Questioning]

3 hours ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

I measure morality by the standard God gives us in his word. For example Trump opposes abortion which God also does. Trump opposes gay rights which God also does. Trump supports Israel's sovereignty and right to exist which God also does. Trump supports religious freedom which God also does. Biden on the other hand supports gay rights which are an abomination to God. Biden supports abortion which is the mass murder of children which it is strongly condemned by God. Biden does not support religious freedom which has opened the door for religious persecution, something God would strongly disapprove of. Biden does not support the sovereignty or right to exist for Israel which is God's chosen country. So I find it strange that you would say the Trump is the worst choice when he falls more in line with Christian values than Biden does. I would never say the Trump is a Christian, however he does support many Christian values. So would you care to explain why you believe that Trump is the worst choice when he is the most moral choice that we currently have available?

I don't have time to respond to every point you have made in your posts, but will say this.  My ideas of morality are more in line with the teachings of Jesus---not the stories and laws found in the Old Testament, which I refered to above.  It seems a lot of your ideas (and of the movement you belong to) come from the OT, rather than Jesus.  I do not want the USA to head in that direction.

[Questioning]

32 minutes ago, Marathoner said:

Authoritarianism is a foundational building block of the CN narrative. Favored men in positions of civil authority are cast as having been chosen by God; men who run afoul of CN sentimentality are cast as servants of Satan. 

Thank you for that statement.  It ties in with what I said above about Old Testament thinking.  Authoritarainism builds power, and power corupts.  I believe Jesus recognized this and was suggesting a better way.  The early churches were even somewhat "democratic", in that they chose their own "overseers", had some female "leaders", and established conferences in an effort to maintain unity.  But the Catholic church slowly and cleaverly steered it back to male authoritarian rule.  And in a sense, that is what Christian Nationalist are trying to do today.

In his day Jesus was a radical liberal, and the authoritarians killed him.  

[Questioning]

2 hours ago, Slibhin said:

I'm calling this out.

Firstly:

How exactly in your mind is Biden against Israel or it's sovereignty?

- He vetoed every resolution against Israel.

- He calls himself a Zionist.

- He still sends them military support, even bypassing congress to do so.

He has refused to take any action whatsoever against Israel despite the entire world condemning them for ethnic cleansing and war crimes. The most he's done is suggest they show "restraint". He's refused to take any action to the point it has cost him massive support from his base, likely lost him Michigan, and may cost him the election. If he was against Israel he would have this problem. Even I'm more against Israel then he is, and I'm an Israeli Jew.

Secondly:

What exactly does Biden do that prevents your religious freedom? Ironically something you claim while posting freely on a Christian forum based in the United States. You have entire Christian television networks, there are over 350 thousand churches operating and you can talk openly without being arrested. Can you explain where the persecution, government sanctioned religious impediments and anti-Christian discrimination by the state are? Don't just allege it, show me the proof.

You've obviously never been to a country where actual Christian discrimination is. I've been to countries where Christians get arrested and have to meet in secret, you don't have that problem.

Thirdly:

Biden hasn't done much of anything for abortion or LGBT rights. He knew the decision was coming to strike down Roe and did squat. He could have expanded the court or threatened to do so, and he didn't. Roosevelt was having his agenda ruined by a right wing supreme court, and did threaten to expand it if they didn't knock it off... it worked. He's given lip service to women's rights but he has done very little. When Biden was vice-President under Obama they had a filibuster proof majority and they still refused to codify abortion rights.

Just because someone supports freedom doesn't mean they personally endorse an activity or behaviour. LGBT isn't allowed for Jews either and I still support their rights to do whatever they want. The reason is not because I'm pro-LGBT or think gay marriage is swell, it's because I don't believe in regulating other people. I've refused to go to a gay wedding because it's against my religion. If you are not harming anyone, do what you want. You cannot force people by law to be of your religion, period. If someone is not a Christian, or a Jew or whatever, then the rules and morality of our beliefs do not apply to them. What is so hard about this for some people to get through their skulls? Claiming "G-d want's this..." goes to number four...

Fourthly:

Unless you are claiming to be a prophet do not claim to know what Hashem does and doesn't support. He does not talk to any of us and is capable of handling his own affairs. He talks through a pillar of fire, or angels... things like that. There is no example in the Tanakh (or the New Testament that I'm aware of) where G-d ever gave people "a feeling" or talked to them inside their heads. When he speaks, you know it and it's not disputable.

THANK YOU!  Especially for the first and second callouts.  I don't follow politics closely, but those agree with my observations.  Israel is far from being a perfect angel.

Edited March 24 by Questioning