Guest AWorkInProgress Posted November 11, 2005 Share Posted November 11, 2005 Whatever you set out to find in the bible, you will find it. It is all things to all men. The real question is what are you looking for and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Posted November 11, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 115 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 8,281 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 249 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/03/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/30/1955 Share Posted November 11, 2005 leonard , By promoting yourself as so smart, you make it hard for anyone to listen to you at all , you are missing the core issue? Abbershay: Despite the continued coarse rudeness and accusations of Izomi, in leaving the discussion, I did wish her 'fare well, wherever you fare.' I thought that most charitable of me. Where did I claim to be so smart? Rather 2 or 3 times I complimented the girl on her intelligence, and was met with the attitude of snotty juvenile petulance at every turn. It is most regrettable that you mistake good grammar, clear thinking, and good manners for arrogance. In any and all events, I hope you will excuse me; I have to return to work. I wish you and yours a very pleasant afternoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abbershay Posted November 11, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 562 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/03/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted November 11, 2005 I am sorry that you dont get it. I dont mean to be rude but you seem to love to talk down to people . I hope you will learn from this. Thats my only purpose i hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itzomi Posted November 11, 2005 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 44 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/09/2005 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 11, 2005 Abbershay: Despite the continued coarse rudeness and accusations of Izomi, in leaving the discussion, I did wish her 'fare well, wherever you fare.' I thought that most charitable of me. Where did I claim to be so smart? Rather 2 or 3 times I complimented the girl on her intelligence, and was met with the attitude of snotty juvenile petulance at every turn. Not that this needs to be dragged on any further, but since you asked... Your quote, from my introductory thread: These are very strange statements to me, for I have read the Bible through more than 40 times, in 8 different translations, the New Testament even in a Latin version, the Old Testament (albeit haltingly) in Hebrew, and I believe the Bible MORE all the time. I took a B.A. cum laude and With Distinction, and a three year M.A. with a 3.85 GPA, I'm published in magazines, I've taught for years at the college level, so I think I'm not just some dumb hick who reads simplistically! TMI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted November 12, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted November 12, 2005 gosh, if I had known more Christians like him during my walk, I might not be sitting here on the other side of the fence today. Hey! I don't mean this as pointing fingers, but as an observation based on what I see in this response. I could be wrong, I admit. I just want to be sure. But this statement has shades of blame-shifting. That is, blaming the actions of others for your your reaction. Like I said, I could be wrong, as I don't know the whole story; I am just pointing out that this is how it comes across. I say this because I've had to deal with chronic depression in my life, and in part of my counselling I learned of incorrect ways people deal with problems that keep us in a state of injury, and blame-shifting was one of them. If the shoe fits wear it; if not, chuck it. Only you can know if this is true to your heart or not. I am just concerned that this might be the case. For it is, I hope you may find healing in your life from the need to do so to deal with your problems, for it isn't healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itzomi Posted November 12, 2005 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 44 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/09/2005 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 12, 2005 gosh, if I had known more Christians like him during my walk, I might not be sitting here on the other side of the fence today. Hey! I don't mean this as pointing fingers, but as an observation based on what I see in this response. I could be wrong, I admit. I just want to be sure. But this statement has shades of blame-shifting. That is, blaming the actions of others for your your reaction. Like I said, I could be wrong, as I don't know the whole story; I am just pointing out that this is how it comes across. I say this because I've had to deal with chronic depression in my life, and in part of my counselling I learned of incorrect ways people deal with problems that keep us in a state of injury, and blame-shifting was one of them. Nothing wrong with asking a sincere question! What I meant by that was that my Christian walk wasn't necessarily enjoyable overall and I was discouraged by the attitudes of Christians nitpicking each other and such. In fact, I had a disgust with Christians AS a Christian that I no longer have now. If more Christians were more loving and less judgmental, maybe I might not have ventured outside of Christianity to seek other answers. Not that that was THE cause of my drifting, it was a mixture of things - plus I didn't really mean the comment that literally - but I do think generally that the family of Christ needs to be more supportive of each other so that those struggling with the faith feel less like giving up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix Posted November 12, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 397 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/24/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted November 12, 2005 I don't know who He is anymore, if the Bible is (in my opinion) no longer "the Word of God." Very astute. Unlike Bishop Spong who still believes he knows who God is, while not believing the Bible. Still my question was what led you to disbelieve in it as the Word of God? Yeah, I don't understand how some people can only believe in certain parts of the Bible and not others? You either believe it or you don't, you can't pick and choose. Like people who claim to be Christians but say it's OK to be gay. People like that, IMO, are only in it for the "warm fuzzies." They want just enough to make them feel good about themselves but not enough for it to be an inconvenience. I may not believe in the Bible myself anymore, but if someone else claims to be a Christian, I expect them to believe in it - all of it! I don't even know where to start as far as no longer believing. Just reading the first page of the Bible brings about a trillion questions, but I guess I can start with: How is it that God created night & day on the First Day and the sun & moon on the Fourth? I know you can't really answer that to my satisfaction - there's really no logical answer (there are "answers," but they're ridiculous ones) - but that's just one of the many head-scratchers I can't get past. Hello itzomi. I believe you are genuine and sincere. This is a good question I would like to answer. Not sure how satisfied you will be with it. I also didnt bother to read other posts (too much reading) so not sure if you're satisfied yet. Upon reading your question I noticed that I didnt consider this much. Thus I looked over it and here is an answer. This is going to be different. I will first speak of it in regards to its prophetic signifigcance and then give a scientific explanation: Gen 1:3-5 And God said, "Let there be light" and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from teh darkness. God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning- the first day. Recall that the earth was first empty and covered with darkness (gen 1:2). This is prophetically refering to our condition before we had Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour. We were dark and empty inside. But then God said, "Let there be light". This light prophetically signifies Christ who was "the light that had come into the world" (John 9:5, 8:12, 1:9, 3:19). The formless and empty earth covered with darkness is us, and Christ is the light that has come in. That is why there is evening first and then morning; we are first in darkness and then we receive light. Jesus said " I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness" (John 12:46). Gen 1:6-8 And God said, "Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water." So God made the expanse between the waters to separate water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so. God called the expanse "sky." and there was evening, and there was morning- the second day. After we receive Christ and believe, we are baptised. Water above and water underneath is like a full submersion, a baptism. This is the next step (day) after we receive Christ as our light. Gen 1:9-13 And God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear." And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground "land," and the gathered waters he called "seas." And God saw that it was good. 11 Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolts Posted November 12, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 963 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/27/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/10/1963 Share Posted November 12, 2005 WoWW!!! So Cool............ Keep on rockin' felix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted November 12, 2005 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/10/1923 Share Posted November 12, 2005 felix. That's a fairly interesting angle, I'll re-read that and chew on it. And you are right Itzomi has a perfect right to ask such a question. I agree with IR. This board was originated for those who wish to edify and be edified for the perfection of the saints unto the ministry ( to quote Pauls letter to the Ephesians )and to build up the body of Christ. Ask not....receive not. e Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caldog Posted November 12, 2005 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 21 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/02/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted November 12, 2005 (edited) I don't know who He is anymore, if the Bible is (in my opinion) no longer "the Word of God." Very astute. Unlike Bishop Spong who still believes he knows who God is, while not believing the Bible. Still my question was what led you to disbelieve in it as the Word of God? Yeah, I don't understand how some people can only believe in certain parts of the Bible and not others? You either believe it or you don't, you can't pick and choose. Like people who claim to be Christians but say it's OK to be gay. People like that, IMO, are only in it for the "warm fuzzies." They want just enough to make them feel good about themselves but not enough for it to be an inconvenience. I may not believe in the Bible myself anymore, but if someone else claims to be a Christian, I expect them to believe in it - all of it! I don't even know where to start as far as no longer believing. Just reading the first page of the Bible brings about a trillion questions, but I guess I can start with: How is it that God created night & day on the First Day and the sun & moon on the Fourth? I know you can't really answer that to my satisfaction - there's really no logical answer (there are "answers," but they're ridiculous ones) - but that's just one of the many head-scratchers I can't get past. I don't see a problem here. first He made light. the darkness is called night the light is called day. this is the first day of creation. on the fourth day He created stars, sun, and moon to mark off seasons and days and to shine light onto the world. Is your problem with this that God couldnt have counted a day unless the earth rotated with the sun shining on it? Edited November 12, 2005 by caldog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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