Remember the sabath day

[BlindSeeker]

One must ask, if God's Ten Commandments bring such bondage, why then does James call it the Law of Liberty?

Is James really referring to God's Ten Commandments? Isn

[BlindSeeker]

This is getting a little frustrating. It seems as if no one can answer simple questions, they can only ask them.

Has no one a biblical answer as to why Christians gather on Sunday instead of the Sabbath?

BS - you sound a little frustrated. What day of the week was the

[JLW001]

Blindseeker, let me refer you to Galations chapter four. In the letter, Paul is addressing the church at Galatia that had been infiltrated by those who sought to bring observance of the Law into Jesus Christ's church. There are no observances commanded by Jesus except to eat the Lord's supper in remembrance of Him and to love others as we love ourselves and to love God above all. Paul becomes very concerned for the salvation of the Galatians because they have been convinced to not only be circumcized, but to follow the ordinances, days,sabbaths, festivals of the Law.

We are free of the Law, because we live within Jesus Christ. Jesus observed the law to perfection for us. He also said he had come not to destroy the law, but to magnify it. That means He took the law from a set of physical observances and changed it into a Law of Love that governs our very spirits.

Please read Galatians 4, if not the whole of Galatians.

Jamie,

Where in God's Royal Law are we commanded to be circumcised?

One need's to make a distinction between the Mosaic Law (which was full of prophetic ceremonies and rituals which indeed were fulfilled by Jesus) and the Royal Law of God which was written by His own finger in stone. As pointed out earlier in this thread by another, God made the distinction between the 2 Himself when He had Moses place the Ten Commandments inside the Ark of the Covenant and had Moses fabricate a pocket on the exterior of the Ark for the scrolls/Mosaic Law.

One must ask, if God's Ten Commandments bring such bondage, why then does James call it the Law of Liberty?

Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:

24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.

25 But whoso looketh into

the perfect law of liberty

, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

To respond to a whole chapter of book Bible would make one's post beyond reasonable length. If you wish to submit a biblical precept for consideration and response please submit the verse or verse you feel are appropriate.

Regarding our being "free of the Law, because we live within Jesus Christ," perhaps you should consider what law frees us from what law.

Ro 7:23 But I see

another law

in my members,

warring against

the law

of my mind

, and bringing me into captivity to

the law of sin which is in my members

[and not in ceremoniea and rituals]

.

Ro 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve

the

[moral]

law

of God; but with the flesh

the law of sin

.

Ro 8:2 For

the law of the Spirit of life

in Christ Jesus hath made me free from

the law of sin and death

.

3 For what

the

[ceremonial]

law

could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh.

4 That the righteousness of

the

[moral]

law

might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

1Pe 1:22 Seeing

ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit

unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

23

Being born again

, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible,

by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever

.

While I do appreciate your reply, you too have failed to answer any of my questions, especially those in regards to Sunday as the day of worship.

Well I have read your two questions.

1) Has no one a biblical answer as to why Christians gather on Sunday instead of the Sabbath?

There is not one. But there is a biblical response as to why Christians do not keep the Jewish sabbath day. If you would like I will answer that with quotes from scripture.

2) Where is the authority of Holy Writ for such a believe-ism as Sunday being the new "Day of the Lord?"

Isn't this the same as question number two? Or is there some other holy writ than the bible? If there is I do not know of it.

As a matter of fact I will go ahead and show you through the bible that Christians have keep the ordinances of the Law through being in Jesus Christ. Therefore it is by faith in Jesus that we are justified. If we have faith in Jesus as the Son of God and as our atoning sacrifice, then we will follow His commands. This is what James is saying. He says you claim to have faith, but I will show you that I have faith based on the fruit that Jesus has accomplished through me. That fruit is of course the fruit of the spirit. The act of living life with genuine love for one another and putting God before all things.

I also dispute your assumption that the ten commandments are separate from the Jewish Law. Distinguishing between the two by their physical placement in or on the ark is a stretch. It would be an indication if there were any other evidence that supported the assumption. But there is not. In fact I am somewhat worried by the fact that you quote scripture and include words (ceremonial, moral) in brackets that are not there in the bible. There are two reasons people do this. First, translators use this to improve the flow of the language by including articles and words like "the" and "thou". The other reason that people do this is to change the meaning of the bible. That's a very dangerous thing to do. I have no translation of the bible that includes such words in brackets in the scriptures you quote.

Let me assume that you believe in the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ and know that you are justified by faith in Him alone. If you don't believe this, then after your reply I will come back to the bible and prove such is true.

Lets look at Galatians 4.

NKJV

4But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

6And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out,

[BlindSeeker]

Two laws were given at Sinai.

One by the finger of God on stone and another written by the hand of Moses on scrolls.

Paul advised all Christians of all ages (Romans 7) that we are

[BlindSeeker]

Jamie,

Thank you for your reply. I have read your post and will reply when I have more time. Today is a very demanding day for me so I will probably not be able to respond till late or tomorrow at best.

Briefly though, I do trust in the atoning sacrifice of my Savior and do not feel any obligations to observe or keep any of the high days as defined in Lev 23 as separate from the weekly Sabbath which was set apart from the completion of creation.

Unlike the Mosaic Law, or the Levitical Law, there is nothing Jewish about the weekly Sabbath or the Ten Commandments other than "they," the Jews, as all men are to acknowledge God's Commandments.

Heb 7:11 If therefore perfection were by

the Levitical priesthood

, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,

16 Who is made, not after

the law of a carnal commandment

, but after the power of an endless life.

Where was there a "carnal commandment" regarding the priesthood in the Ten Commanments?

Why is there even such a distinction made by man and Holy Writ, Mosaic Law, or the Levitical Law, God's Law, if the two laws are not separate?

Jos 8:31 As Moses the servant of the LORD commanded the children of Israel, as it is written in the book of the law of Moses, an altar of whole stones, over which no man hath lift up any iron: and they offered thereon burnt offerings unto the LORD, and sacrificed peace offerings.

Jos 8:32 And he wrote there upon the stones a copy of the law of Moses, which he wrote in the presence of the children of Israel.

Jos 23:6 Be ye therefore very courageous to keep and to do all that is written in the book of the law of Moses, that ye turn not aside therefrom to the right hand or to the left;

Jg 4:11 Now Heber the Kenite, which was of the children of Hobab the father in law of Moses, had severed himself from the Kenites, and pitched his tent unto the plain of Zaanaim, which is by Kedesh.

1Ki 2:3 And keep the charge of the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, to keep his statutes, and his commandments, and his judgments, and his testimonies, as it is written in the law of Moses, that thou mayest prosper in all that thou doest, and whithersoever thou turnest thyself:

2Ki 14:6 But the children of the murderers he slew not: according unto that which is written in the book of the law of Moses, wherein the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, nor the children be put to death for the fathers; but every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

2Ki 23:25 And like unto him was there no king before him, that turned to the LORD with all his heart, and with all his soul, and with all his might, according to all the law of Moses; neither after him arose there any like him.

2Ch 23:18 Also Jehoiada appointed the offices of the house of the LORD by the hand of the priests the Levites, whom David had distributed in the house of the LORD, to offer the burnt offerings of the LORD, as it is written in the law of Moses, with rejoicing and with singing, as it was ordained by David.

2Ch 30:16 And they stood in their place after their manner, according to the law of Moses the man of God: the priests sprinkled the blood, which they received of the hand of the Levites.

Ezr 3:2 Then stood up Jeshua the son of Jozadak, and his brethren the priests, and Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, and his brethren, and builded the altar of the God of Israel, to offer burnt offerings thereon, as it is written in the law of Moses the man of God.

Ezr 7:6 This Ezra went up from Babylon; and he was a ready scribe in the law of Moses, which the LORD God of Israel had given: and the king granted him all his request, according to the hand of the LORD his God upon him.

Ne 8:1 And all the people gathered themselves together as one man into the street that was before the water gate; and they spake unto Ezra the scribe to bring the book of the law of Moses, which the LORD had commanded to Israel.

Da 9:11 Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.

Da 9:13 As it is written in the law of Moses, all this evil is come upon us: yet made we not our prayer before the LORD our God, that we might turn from our iniquities, and understand thy truth.

Mal 4:4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.

Lu 2:22 And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord;

Lu 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Joh 7:23 If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?

Ac 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Ac 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

Ac 28:23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.

1Co 9:9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?

Jos 24:26 And Joshua wrote these words in the book of the law of God, and took a great stone, and set it up there under an oak, that was by the sanctuary of the LORD.

Ne 8:8 So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

Ne 8:18 Also day by day, from the first day unto the last day, he read in the book of the law of God. And they kept the feast seven days; and on the eighth day was a solemn assembly, according unto the manner.

Ne 10:29 They clave to their brethren, their nobles, and entered into a curse, and into an oath, to walk in God

[Arthur Durnan]

In context (Exodus 20:8-11) - which is vitally important, of course - the Jewish Seventh-day Sabbath was given expressly to the nation of Israel, not to the Church of Jesus Christ at all. Why celebrate a keystone of JEWISH doctrine (along with circumcision) when, according to the Apostle Paul, Faith (the Living, all-conquering Messiah-Savior) has come? All Sabbath-keepers must peruse & memorize the Epistle to the Galatians with all due haste.

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[BlindSeeker]

In context (Exodus 20:8-11) - which is vitally important, of course - the Jewish Seventh-day Sabbath was given expressly to the nation of Israel, not to the Church of Jesus Christ at all. Why celebrate a keystone of JEWISH doctrine (along with circumcision) when, according to the Apostle Paul, Faith (the Living, all-conquering Messiah-Savior) has come? All Sabbath-keepers must peruse & memorize the Epistle to the Galatians with all due haste.

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

That's like saying all of the Ten Commandments, or even the whole Old Testament "was given expressly to the nation of Israel, not to the Church of Jesus Christ at all" or anyone else for that matter.

[Pilgrim7]

Peace,

The Jewish Sabbath? Where is that in scripture? After Jesus created the worlds, He created the 7th day Sabbath and made it Holy. Where were the Jews? There was only God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit and Adam. Jesus created the Sabbath day in order to fellowship with Adam and instruct Him in Righteousness and Holiness and Adam responded in worship and adoration for the free gift of Eternal Life. God ceased from His labor of creation in order to fellowship and instruct and Adam received that instruction and worshiped. This is the purpose of ceasing form secular activities in order to have this unbroken fellowship.

The Israelites, not just the Jews, were told to remember God's Holy Sabbath day, for they had forgotten during their 400 years captivity. Jews are the descendants of Judah. It is God's Holy Sabbath Day, made Holy by our Saviour, Jesus, when He created all. He made it a Holy Day, He set it aside for a holy use. It is His, our Lord's day. He made it for all mankind when He created man. This is the overwhelming testimony of Scripture. Where is the scripture that calls it the Jewish Sabbath. The Jews didn't create it and make it Holy, God did.

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy (not just rest). 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 20:10 But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God (not the Jews): [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates: 20:11

For [in] six days the LORD made (Created) heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. (Now God tells them why they are to Keep His Holy Sabbath Day. It is to remember He, Jesus, who created all and to worship Him, Jesus, as Creator. You see it is really all about Jesus.)

Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily MY SABBATHS ye shall keep: for it [is] a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that [ye] may know that I [am] the LORD that doth sanctify you.

Thus we have the testimony of the Word of God, the testimony of Jesus who is the 'Word of God' that it is His Holy Sabbath Day, that it is a sign of Sanctification and holiness and obedience. There were Jewish sabbaths, they were those ceremonial sabbaths associated with the feast days and the Sacrificial System, which system was done away with in Christ the Sacrifice, the Lamb in the thicket. All that was a part of the Ceremonial/sacrificial system were done away with. The Holy Sabbath of God was a creation of God and had nothing to do with the Sacrificial system.

You see, I, a gentile believer, have been grafted into the 'Tree', the Israel of God and have been recreated in the image of God, as was Adam created in the Image of God, and as a son of Adam, I have a need to cease from my labor in order to fellowship with the Living God and be instructed in Righteousness by God Himself who dwells in me through the Spirit. This always results in my worship and adoration of Him on His Holy Sabbath Day which He created for me as a son of Adam.

God Bless,

Dennis

[JLW001]

In context (Exodus 20:8-11) - which is vitally important, of course - the Jewish Seventh-day Sabbath was given expressly to the nation of Israel, not to the Church of Jesus Christ at all. Why celebrate a keystone of JEWISH doctrine (along with circumcision) when, according to the Apostle Paul, Faith (the Living, all-conquering Messiah-Savior) has come? All Sabbath-keepers must peruse & memorize the Epistle to the Galatians with all due haste.

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

That's like saying all of the Ten Commandments, or even the whole Old Testament "was given expressly to the nation of Israel, not to the Church of Jesus Christ at all" or anyone else for that matter.

The Law, including all that was given at Mt Sinai (see the quote from Galations4:21-26) was given to Israel. They were and are God's set apart nation. They were chosen by God to serve as an example to all mankind.

This is the crux of the matter. Jesus said I have not come to destroy the law, but to magnify it (Matt 5:17-48). Now, he was not making a distinction as you have, but saying that its time to grow up. God gave us a set of physical observances/laws which the Israelites were to follow. Jesus said, I'm not destroying these things, I'm telling you what they really were meant to become. The "Law" of Jesus is to love God above all and to love your neighbor as yourself. He himself said that the law was summed up, was meant to foster, was taken from, these two commandments.

Now, Jesus' commands to us are much more stringent than any of the physical law. So, let me state emphatically, a Christian does not to follow the ten commandments! A Christian must follow Jesus' law which is much more difficult and stringent. He said, "If you love me, you will follow my commands". Only by the Holy Spirit can one obey Jesus' commands. You see if you love your neighbor as yourself, you would never commit anything forbidden in the ten commandments. Now, of course we daily sin against the commands of Jesus' because we humans do not treat others as we would treat ourselves. However, we do continually grow in and become closer to that perfection which is Jesus Christ.

The old law, which includes everything given at Mt. Sinai, has been surpassed. It was a law governing the physical. Now, we must obey a spiritual law. Which governs, not only the physical, but also the spiritual. Our very thoughts may cause us to sin versus simply not having sex with someone other than your spouse which would keep you free from commiting adultery. Jesus said that if we look upon another woman with lust then we have committed adultery. Do you see the nature of the "grown up" or spiritual law? No longer is it of keeping certain days, but of keeping and honoring God continually in our minds and spirit.

The sabbath (included in what Jesus called the law or ten commandments) has now been magnified from simply honoring God once a week and resting in Him during that time to always honoring God, always resting in Him, our Lord Jesus Christ. If we do not rest in Jesus, then we are not His and will not receive salvation. resting in Jesus mean relying upon Him for all our needs, physical and spiritual. Resting in Him provides us with a peace and joy that surpasses all understanding. It provides us with the strength to live in this terrible world until He returns to gather us to Him and transform us.

Edited December 1, 2005 by JLW001

[Guest shiloh357]

In context (Exodus 20:8-11) - which is vitally important, of course - the Jewish Seventh-day Sabbath was given expressly to the nation of Israel, not to the Church of Jesus Christ at all. Why celebrate a keystone of JEWISH doctrine (along with circumcision) when, according to the Apostle Paul, Faith (the Living, all-conquering Messiah-Savior) has come? All Sabbath-keepers must peruse & memorize the Epistle to the Galatians with all due haste.

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

I would just like point out something about the book of Galatians. The book of Galatians is not, as may think, the death knell to Torah observance. "Keeping the law" is not what the book of Galatians is dealing with. The issue was circumcision. Evidently, this problem came about in the Galatian Church prior to the ruling of the Jerusalem council in Acts 15, as it would seem probable that Paul would have reminded them of this ruling had it already existed. It is my personal conviction that the controversy in Galatia might have been the catalyst for the Jerusalem council.

You need to understand what circumcision means to a Jewish person. It is not done to just "keep the law." That is not the point at all. Circumcision of a Gentile is only performed when a Gentile is converting to the religion of the Jewish people. This was true even in Paul's day prior the religion of Judaism. When a Gentile is circumcised by a Rabbi (mohel), he is telling the world that he has now entered into the covenant, and has chosen to physically join the Jewish people. He has "converted," essentially. That is the only reason a Gentile would be ritually circumcised by a Rabbi.

The problem in Galatia was that you had a Judaizing cult telling the Galatians that Jesus was not enough. They were telling them to be circumcised i.e., to become Jews. They were telling them that they had to physically join national Israel by becoming converts to the Jewish religion in addition to believing in Jesus.

Paul never condemned anyone for keeping the Sabbath. He never condemned anyone for keeping kosher, or anything of that nature. He was, himself, a Torah observant Jew until the day of his death. It is important to point out that Jesus NEVER condemned Sabbath observance. What Jesus condemned was the hypocritical way that some of the Pharisees approached Sabbath observance. Contrary to popular Christian thought, observance of Torah is not the antithesis of Christianity. Sabbath observance is not contrary or inconsistent with any values or doctrines of the New Testament.