mikado5001 Posted November 28, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 145 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 972 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/03/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/23/1973 Share Posted November 28, 2005 I have just been thinking today about how G-d reached me. In college I heard about Hellfire and damnation. That message did not reach me. It was "G-d is love" that reached me. He sent Jesus because HE loved us. Jesus DID NOT die on the Cross. He GAVE HIS LIFE FOR US on the Cross. You see the difference. This is what happens if you accept G-d's gift of salvation. That's what reached me. Not the this is what happens if you don't accept G-d's gift. I have read about how "This is not the G-d of the Bible." I think in this world of anger and hatred. We need to focus on love more than anything. Some folks minimize the LOVE in favor of G-d's hatred of sin. As opposed to G-d's love of the sinner. And some folks use the exact opposite of this area. I have not EVER seen a balanced presentation of this. It's like those who talk about the KJV vs the NIV, NASB, NLT, and the other available translations of G-d's word. Last night I was given a whole pile of literature on this. Is it a case of one way being absolutely better than another. OR is it a case of whatever works. So long as it's scriturally acurate and aides in people getting saved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted November 28, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted November 28, 2005 This is like the old discussion on which is better: "hellfire & brimstone" or "God's grace." I believe most people need to know of the love, grace, and mercy extended to them by the Lord upon the cross more than they need to know they are going to go to hell if they don't believe into Him. Plus, I would argue two things: A) It takes more prayer, more study, more discernment, and more of the need to be in the Spirit to preach of God's love, grace, mercy, and Christ's unqualified sacrifice and, B) The Gospel - that is, the "good news" - is not that believers will go to heaven and unbelievers will go to hell. The "good news" is that Christ willingly went to the cross to accomplish two things: Firstly to save sinners from the might, power, and sting of sin and death, and secondly to impart God's uncreated, indestructable, divine life into all who have believed into and called upon His name, and to build them up together in the new creation as a corporate Body, household, bride, and holy city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IslandRose Posted November 29, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 476 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5,266 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 63 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/21/1954 Share Posted November 29, 2005 I believe that different people respond to different things. There are some who will respond quickly to the amazing love of God, there are others who must realize what the consequences of a life of sin will be. Jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. 22 And of some have compassion, making a difference: 23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted November 29, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.20 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted November 29, 2005 Why must they be mutually exclusive? In order to understand grace, one had to understand why the grace is being offered. Likewise, if one sees the negative alternative (hell), they must see the positive choice in Christ. I see the two working hand in hand, not as different ways to reach out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamie Posted November 29, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 104 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,026 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/13/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted November 29, 2005 Why must they be mutually exclusive? In order to understand grace, one had to understand why the grace is being offered. Likewise, if one sees the negative alternative (hell), they must see the positive choice in Christ. I see the two working hand in hand, not as different ways to reach out. Thats the way I see it too, all of Gods word is interwoven and good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikado5001 Posted November 29, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 145 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 972 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/03/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/23/1973 Author Share Posted November 29, 2005 I don't see one as mutually exclusive. They are both good for teaching and all. It's just that our Father in Heaven becomes either a lovin0g, caring, and mercifull G-d. Or an angry loathing tyrant. Depending on which you are taught. I advocate teaching BOTH areas. Heaven and Hell. I suppose the question is which one do you/we feel should be amplified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaughterofKing Posted November 29, 2005 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 92 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 232 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/19/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted November 29, 2005 It probably does depend on the person but I know I am motivated more by the fear of hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted November 29, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted November 29, 2005 Different people are however going to be called in different ways. Thus both methods must and should be spoken of, and I agree they are not mutually exclusive. However we may end up emphasizing one more than the other, some people need to hear one more than the other. I myself needed to hear the damnation part first, why? Because I needed to understand the need for repentance, I didn't think I needed to repent of most things I did (what a joke!), I needed my sin to be pointed out to me, once it was I didn't like hearing it, but hear it I did. On the other hand some people are so loaded down by their sins and guilt already that they need the message of grace and forgiveness first, they need to know that forgiveness is available. But preaching a message of grace and forgiveness first, would not work for someone like me, who didn't really see a need for grace or forgiveness as I didn't think I was a sinner, in fact I didn't really believe in sin as a concept. I think it is more difficult to preach on God's plan for those who reject His offer of grace effectively however, it takes a great gift to do that in the right way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NewPilgrim Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 Christ is our example. He preached grace mercy forgiveness and love though faith and obedience to God, he didnt shy away from the topic of condemnation and educated those who needed educating. His emphasis however was on the former. People need to know why they need grace they also need to know that they can trust God. Do as the Saviour does, tend to the need of each and every one, seek to know what's on their heart and let the Spirit speak the words of God :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaniJ87 Posted November 29, 2005 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 265 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/30/1987 Share Posted November 29, 2005 Read "The Grace and Truth Paradox", by Randy Alcorn. The whole book is on this topic. It is awesome to think about how beyond us, God is. I believe that you must present both God's grace and love, as well as His truth, and justice. Focusing on one to the neglect of the other does not teach the true Gospel. Saying "Jesus Loves you, and wants you to be with Him in heaven- so follow Him" isn't the whole story. Saying "Jesus hates sin and you will go to hell if you don't follow Him" isn't the whole story. Saying "You are a sinner. Jesus loves you, but He hates sin. He wants you to live with Him in Heaven, but nothing sinful can be in Heaven. He gave his life for you on the cross to pay for your sins, and if you accept his free and perfect gift of eternal life, you can live with Him forever in Heaven." IS the whole story. does this help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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