Democrats propose Bible course for public schools

[Guest Cephas]

If the Dems are pushing for Bible course in schools, perhaps some of them will take the course themselves. After they complete the course they might repent and become Republicans.

Dan

Not likely. I'm afraid many Republican "Christians" will get a rude awakening when Jesus finally gets here and lets them know He supported NEITHER party or their agenda's. Sorry friends, but God ISN'T a Republican or a conservative (NO, He's not a Liberal or a Democrat either, but they are more likely to support charity, working people AND POOR people than the Republicans seem to be).

[Scarletprayers]

If the Dems are pushing for Bible course in schools, perhaps some of them will take the course themselves. After they complete the course they might repent and become Republicans.

Dan

Not likely. I'm afraid many Republican "Christians" will get a rude awakening when Jesus finally gets here and lets them know He supported NEITHER party or their agenda's. Sorry friends, but God ISN'T a Republican or a conservative (NO, He's not a Liberal or a Democrat either, but they are more likely to support charity, working people AND POOR people than the Republicans seem to be).

The idea that Democrates support charity, working people and poor people is a myth. What they support is taking money from others, and giving it to people who are often times too lazy to work. Their policies help to keep people poor forever, in an attempt to keep a voter base. 2 Thessalonians 3:10 says, "For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat." Average working class people are hurt by Democrats because they take such a large portion of their paychecks through taxes. For a lot of years, I worked for minimum wage, and could have probably gotten by, had it not been for the excessive money taken out of my meager check for the purpose of re-distribution by Robin Hood wanna bes in the Democratic Party. Democrats are the party of welfare recipients only, and that is easy to do, considering it is other people's money they are confiscating and giving away.

While God may not be a Republican, the policies of the Democrats are certainly anti-God. They support the killing of unborn children, and rights for homosexuals. Both of these things are contrary to the Christian faith. As a Republican Christian, I don't need a rude awakening to find out Jesus is not a member of a political party. I am a Republican because their policies are closer to fitting in with the Bible than are the anti-God Democrats.

Preach on Butero, preach on!

[undone]

I'm generally opposed to anything spiritual being put in the hands of our goverment. If a class like this were ever included in the public school, it would likely get stripped down to a politically correct mess. You know we can't offend anyone - like homosexuals - tear those verses out.

And you know, Islam, Buddhism, Atheism, Agnosticism, Satanism....etc, have all played a part in shaping American culture. They need equal time.

And whose teaching it? Are they really qualified to teach the bible? Where did they get their training? Would an atheist teacher be allowed to teach this course? UGH! NO THANKS!

The dems got the message in the 2004 elections. Moral Values win elections now a days. Let's create something that gives the appearence of moral values so that these uninformed rednecks will send some votes our way. I'm sure they are COUNTING on the ACLU to shoot it down. That's their way to save face and say they tried.

[Guest Cephas]

The key to ending abortion is adding conservative justices to the Supreme Court as vacancies appear. Bush nominated 2 justices that will likely overturn Roe v Wade.

The Supreme Court has been dominated by Republican appointments for a long time. I've seen no evidence from Bush's two appointments that they would vote to overturn RvW. Even if they would vote for it, there's still not enough votes on the Supreme Court to overturn RvW.

We need the retirement of one liberal judge and the appointment of a conservative judge to take their place to allow states to restrict abortion. Democrats will only appoint anti-life judges, so that is a huge difference.

That's true, but it makes no difference. Republicans will not appoint enough pro-life judges.

The homosexual issue was going to take place regardless who was in office. Republicans have led the charge nationwide to pass amendments to state constitutions banning same sex marriage.

It's only your speculation that the homosexual issue would have taken place regardless of who was in office. The fact is, it didn't happen under Clinton. I don't know who is behind the state initiatives, but I imagine it's mostly bipartisan. Every state given the vote, including those most strongly Democrat, have voted against same-sex marriage by large margins. But, when states have created same-sex marriage, Bush and Cheney both offered approval as a states-rights issue [see links below]. If they were moral men, they would have scolded these states for going against the will of the voters and for corrupting the institution of marriage. The marriage amendment in Congress is a fraud that does not ban same-sex marriage, it serves as nothing more than propaganda for both the Democrats and Republicans. Just last week, Bush appointed a open-homosexual to head the US AIDS program. His Republican father was the first president in history to invite homosexuals to the Whitehouse.

The fact is, Bush was/is so busy pushing for wars against imaginary threats that he ceded domestic moral issues to the liberals. The trouble is, he dragged conservatives with him on his fool's errand to Iraq. [Oh oh, did I just lose you?] You have to pick your battles. I pick saving America against real threats, not fictitious ones. Even if those WMDs were real, I pick saving our souls over saving our flesh. In the next election, Bush is likely to drag down some good Republicans in Congress with the mess he made (dragging the conservative Italian government into the Iraq fiasco got that government voted out, and replaced with the liberals who quickly instituted same-sex marriage).

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/24/...esex/index.html

http://www.washingtonblade.com/blog/index.cfm?blog_id=122

In addition to that, it was liberal judges appointed by Democrats that found so-called rights for homosexuals to marry that began the controversy. In a way I am glad this whole thing came up when it did, because it likely caused Kerry to lose in 2004. As a result of the homosexual issue, there was a vote on making marriage between a man and a woman only in Ohio at the same time as the Presidential election. Many Christians turned out to vote against same sex marriage and then voted for Bush. There is no way Republicans are worse on this issue than Democrats.

Kerry came out against same-sex marriage. You are right in one regard "there is no way Republicans are worse on this issue than Democrats." The problem is, we know what the Democrats are wolves so we guard against them. But, many Christians think the Republican wolves are sheep. This makes Republicans more destructive even if they don't match the Democrats in wanting to push morality down. So, we have increased illegal immigration under Bush (it was Reagan who gave the first mass amnesty to illegals), massive increases in government spending (not just things related to the war), large increases in the national debt, same-sex marriage in several places, unmarried households becoming the norm (this year) for the first time in US history, torture becoming US policy, North Korea building nukes, etc. What happened under Clinton? Real welfare reform. The closest to a balanced budget we've seen in a long time. Much fewer new laws eating away at our freedom.

On the issue of Bible courses in Public Schools, as I have already pointed out, Democrats will say anything to win elections, and then when they are elected, break their promises. They are simply trying to make Christians believe Democrats are a viable option in the upcoming election. It is smart politics, but I don't believe anything Democrats say.

Many Republicans say anything to win elections, as well.

A very hefty RIGHT ON!!!

I see much more poverty, unemployment, bankruptcies, jobs moving out of country under Republican administrations than Democrat ones too. When Dem's are in office, I work, when Rep's are, I'm out of work much more than I work. same with most people in my profession. The Republicans also cut support from DEMOCRATIC Repuplic of China in favor of Communist China by giving that UN seat to them. They also opened the doors of "fair" trade with them. before Nixon they were one of our worst enemies, now they have the largest share of our National Debt. So much for National "Security". Very little of our military gear is even made here. Cuts in Veterans services and benefits, across the board, all the while spewing large amounts of rhetoric about how the support veterans and our military (YES I'm a Vietnam Veteran and have seen many cuts for veterans-including disabled ones)

Lets don't forget the hefty howl all them Republicans made about Clinton's Monica affair, at least she was of age and a female. Look how quick they're trying to whitewash the Foley problem, even to the point of trying to blame the teenage boys for his being a homosexual pedophile. Let's get real. Neither party is right, and the correct course lies in the Bible, not in politics on EITHER side of the issue

Edited October 27, 2006 by Cephas

[HGPgal]

Vex ~

I'm not pleased with what Foley did, I'm glad to see he resigned and I will leave it up to the courts to determine his guilt.

But let's not forget that Clinton was found guilty of perjury and of suborning purjury while in office. He also tried to draw attention away from that personal scandal by shooting missiles at Iraq, et al. Don't tell me that was a calculated military tactic - ha. That was a sitting President of the United States who continues to lie today about that period of his presidency. At least Foley resigned.

Leave it to the courts and let's get on to the important things in life: poverty, lack of insurance for so many Americans, homelessness in the US, the economy... I think Jesus would like us to quit quarrelling and do what He commanded - bring more children into the Kingdom! Have we been doing His bidding???

Peace to you my brother,

~~Lisa

[Guest Cephas]

I'm glad you have such sound evidence the economy does better under Democrats, you see more jobs moving out of the country under Republicans and you work more under Democrats. Personally, I have had no change in status regardless of which party is in office. My financial status has been the result of the job I held and was unnefected by Clinton or Bush. I have seen no difference between job losses under Bush than Clinton, and since I didn't see it, that must be so.

Tis a real shame someone else didn't post your 'arguments' since I've already heard you state your methods of obtaining 'truth'. How was it you said it?

I read Gail Riplingers book and accepted it because it said what I already believed, in fact that's why I listen to Hannity and Limbaugh, I found they say the things I already believe

At least you're honest about being closed to facts and truth and open to flattery and false teachings that assuage your ego and opinions. Most conservatives (and yes, too many 'liberals' too) love to hide behind being "Open Minded" where, in reality, Open means being open to opinions that support their own preferred world view. They're open to hear anything that agrees with their preconceived notions, but let anyone introduce facts or truth that opposes their pet beliefs and those are "biased", "slanted", "leftist propaganda", etc It's amazing how you can ovelook their hypocrisies as long as they support what you wish to be true. Like Limbaugh and Gringrich's drug problems, Foley's 'indiscretions', ad infinitum. The only thing "Christian" or "moral" about the Republicans is that Reagan found out he could touch the Conservative soul by aligning himself with the radical "Moral Majority" and pretending piety himself. Since then the Republicans have figured out that it works, since too many people are one issue voters. In fact, Gay marriage only became an issue lately, yet it's now touted as a long term oppostion issue of the Conservatives so they can win more "conservative" voters over to their cause. They hide their immoral attacks on services for orphans, the elderly,veterans, the poor behind one issue topics like abortion or Gay Rights. True enough, those two issues are moralily issues, but they are only TWO issues (and the republicans actually do little about them anyway) that are far overshadowed by the evils they do on the other moral issues

If Conservatives would judge Republicans with the same measure they use against Liberals they would find the stench of decay, corruption, injustice and dishonesty to be far worse than their opponents. If you'd remove the close pin from your nose, you'd not be able to stand next to the rank odor of death your 'representatives' reek of. You take one bad thing a 'liberal' or Democrat did in his/her life (whether that thing really happened or not is apparently unimportant to "Christian" Conservatives) and judge that person forever, yet you take the one good thing your Conservative or Republican "friend" has done and build him/her into a saint, even if that's the only good thing they ever did. Talk about hypocrisy in action.

As to your comment about 2 Thess 3:10

2 Thessalonians 3:10 says, "For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat."

you're taking it completely out of context. It was directed toward a specific church in a specific culture, but even if we can't agree on that, it was directed toward BELIEVERS. Apparently the Church in Thessalonica had people who had given up supporting themselves in the belief that the 2nd coming was imminent and Paul was telling them to get off their collective backsides and work for their support. It had NOTHING to do with the impoverished or destitute. Jesus NEVER told anyone "GET A JOB YOU BUM" but helped the poor whereever he could (and directed US to do the same). He NEVER put conditions on it either, the only admonishments He added were to "Sin no more" and that was always after the fact. That "work or don't eat" philosophy is just conservative self righteousness pretending at piety while justifying a hard heart and refusing to perform acts of charity. Maybe if you would get off your duff and get down and dirty with the masses you might find out their plight isn't as simple as Rush Limbaugh and Pat Robertson like to make it sound. Get your hands dirty with charity work and find out the truth yourself, quit letting hate mongers form your (or support) opinions. Find out FACTS and TRUTH, not Ego massaging biased hate based opinionating.

As to other comments, I've never heard the Democrats justifying how the slide of wealth to the rich was somehow good for the average person (William F. Buckley did that)(let's see, it was the richest 10% controlled 50% of the nations wealth when Reagan took office and it's now over 80% of that wealth in the hands of the top 5 or 6%), nor have I heard them justify how it's a bad thing to raise the minimum wage so people could actually support themselves, while raising Congressional salaries 8 or 9 times since the last minimum wage increase, of which all but one of those raises has been under the Republican controlled Congress. True enough, Democrats tend to tax higher (at least the Rich, since the tax cuts the Republicans have put out scarce affect the middle class or poor class, in fact Reagan's cuts actually raised taxes on many middle class people), but the economy is generally better and wages are usually more than enough to offset any tax differences. In fact, Republican economic policy is a dual edge 'tax' sword of it's own, since the middle class loses in buying power and wages. And YES I expect you to disagree, but like I said, I already know where your "facts" and opinions come from, so there's scant reason to discuss it with you

[Guest Cephas]

I would like to add a reply to this topic to clarify a point. I know many of you probably see me as 'Republican' or 'Conservative' bashing, and I am, but were this board and the posts on it heavy 'Liberal' or 'Democrat' biased you would see me doing the same to those views. Hate mongering, war mongering, lies, innuendo's, personal attacks, basing your opinions on 'facts' that support what you wish to believe are wrong regardless of leaning and ARE NOT Christian ethics or Fruits. In fact, the TRUE Christian would be neither conservative or liberal, democrat or republican; AND if they were to become politically involved they would research FACTS and TRUTH, not one sided opinions, especially those based on hatred, anger, bigotry and prejudice-like Limbaugh or Robertson and all their ilk (on both sides). In order to gain truth and true knowledge one needs to look at all sides and even do some research on their own, outside the 'media'. There are true Christians aligned with both camps, that I won't argue or disagree with, but the fruits of the Spirit DO NOT include hate, lies, bigotry, prejudice, judgementalism, condemnation, justifications of evil, etc. Jesus called on us to be Peacemakers, Meek, Humble, Apart from the World, Gentle, to LOVE our Neighbors, to help the poor, the elderly, the orphaned (WITHOUT RESERVATIONS or RESTRICTIONS or CONDITIONALS), to do good to those that abuse or oppose us, to feed our enemies, etc.

So, you will find me taking exception to any "Liberal" bashing (or conservative bashing where the shoe is on the other foot). You will find me opposing any one sided opinions masquerading as "FACT" or "TRUTH". The only Truth is in God's Word, and He's silent about current American Political issues. In fact, the only references I see about how to deal with the political issues are "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's" and "Obey your rulers, as they are placed there by God", so if your rulers want to tax you to death, it is THEIR money and God ordained power. They CANNOT take from you what belongs to God. If they want to eliminate Prayer from School and public places, they CANNOT keep you from praying silently!!! If they want to remove the 10 Commandments from Public Places, let them, after all we ARE UNDER GRACE, NOT THE LAW-which does include the ENTIRE Sinai Covenant (including the 10 Commandments) God also states quite plainly that what is happening in this world WILL happen and that His plan WILL NOT be thwarted by any Human or Demon actions. So why don't you trust in Christ and live by TRUTH as revealed in His Word?

I know there are many who will disagree with things I've said, but this is offered in clarification only. I oppose any non Christian, non LOVING attitude, no matter which affliation it masquerades under. My point is always to challenge your narrow, one sided OPINION, not any true facts. To hopefully cause you to think outside your preferred viewpoint and try to see the real truth behind it all. Both sides are wrong (The ENTIRE human world IS Wrong) Only God's way, as outlined in The Holy Writ is correct. Any deviation from that is from the Evil One and the Putrid Human heart

[Guest Logos Believer]

Rather than going through and picking your posts apart Cephas, I will make the reponse short. Very few are open minded to both view points, because most thinking people already know what they believe. We are not tossed to and fro. I am conservative, know what I believe on the major issues, and don't feel the need to listen to liberals promoting their leftist propaganda to find balance.

As far as politicians go, there is corruption on both sides of the isle. As I have said before, I don't vote based on which of the two candidates are the most saintly in their personal lives. I vote based on which candidate will vote closest to the way I would if I were serving in the position I am voting for them to fill. I would vote for a drunkard that will vote pro-life over a good family man that will support the killing of unborn babies. The votes of our representatives will have long term consequences to our nation's future, but their personal issues will not.

As for minimum wage, something you brought up, I don't support it. When you raise the minimum wage, you cause people to be laid off, and prices to go up. As the inflation rate rises and the higher cost of production is passed on, the new higher wage doesn't go any further than the lower wage did originally. This is a Democratic smoke screen issue.

Also, I stand behind what I said about Riplinger, Hannity and Rush. My point is that I was not brainwashed into supporting their positions as people like to claim. I had already made up my own mind, but they have given me more facts and support for positions I already held. Feel free any time you wish to bring up my past statements, because unlike a lot of politicians, I won't run from them. If I said something, I believed it, and in all likelihood still do. I am not a moderate, I am a right-wing conservative and make no bones about it. I also proudly stand with the Christian right, and the things they promote.

I don't recall seeing anything in Cephas post about balance, just a comment about seeking truth and fact, so if you're exchanging balance for that, then I would take it that you don't support truth or fact, or you prefer falsehood and fiction. And voting for a Drunkard? regardless of stance? I guess that means if Satan was to register as a right wing conservative and promised to oppose abortion you would vote for him as well? Wow!!! In fact Satan does share some things in common with Limbaugh and Hannity, he's willing to spoon feed you whatever you wish to hear to get you to support his side, whereas Jesus walks in Truth and Light. Sorry but your comments aren't logical or Christian.

[Arthur Durnan]

Give me the Word of God, the Holy Bible, at all times & in all places, not just in Beautiful Alabama & its educational system.

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[HGPgal]

QUOTE(HGPgal @ Oct 29 2006, 03:12 AM)

But let's not forget that Clinton was found guilty of perjury and of suborning purjury while in office.

QUOTE Vexillium:

"Clinton lied because Clinton's affair was not blown off as "legal." Hestert needs to resign for not doing something about Foley's homosexual predation on boys. And, Republicans need to call for Foley to be prosecuted. Yes, Foley resigned. But, that's not enough."

I call dibs on Butero's response: it's bull and you know it.

QUOTE Butero:

"This is absolute bull. Everyone knows Clinton timed that bombing to try to stop impeachment proceedings. Republicans, unlike Democrats, try to support the actions of the sitting President at a time of war.

People died because Clinton lied. You know what? That sounds like it would make a good bumper sticker."

I would support a sitting President with whose political party I didn't agree IF his decision to bomb another country was for real or perceived reasons, but NOT for mere distraction from his own inadequacies and perversions.

Let's keep our elected officials' feet to the fire on ethics and doing the job for which they were put in office.

That's my 2 cents.