aaronjm Posted December 23, 2005 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 26 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 225 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/24/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1980 Share Posted December 23, 2005 (edited) "The following probabilities are taken from Peter Stoner in Science Speaks (Moody Press, 1963) to show that coincidence is ruled out by the science of probability. Stoner says that by using the modern science of probability in reference to eight prophecies, ‘we find that the chance that any man might have lived down to the present time and fulfilled all eight prophecies is 1 in 10 to the 17th power." That would be 1 in 100,000,000,000,000,000. In order to help us comprehend this staggering probability, Stoner illustrates it by supposing that "we take 10to the 17th power silver dollars and lay them on the face of Texas. They will cover all of the state two feet deep. Now mark one of these silver dollars and stir the whole mass thoroughly, all over the state. Blindfold a man and tell him that he can travel as far as he wishes, but he must pick up one silver dollar and say that this is the right one. What chance would he have of getting the right one? Just the same chance that the prophets would have had of writing these eight prophecies and having them all come true in any one man." Stoner considers 48 prophecies and says, "we find the chance that any one man fulfilled all 48 prophecies to be 1 in 10 to the 157th power, or 1 in 10,00,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 000,000,000." (This information was taken from the book Evidence that Demands a Verdict, by Josh McDowell.) The estimated number of electrons in the universe is around 1079. It should be quite evident that Jesus did not fulfill the prophecies by accident. He was who He said He was: the only way (John 14:6). http://www.carm.org/questions/onlytrue.htm Edited December 23, 2005 by aaronjm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carter Posted December 24, 2005 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 19 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/21/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/20/1967 Share Posted December 24, 2005 How big is the chance for faked prophesies? How big is the chance prophecies can come into being without god? I can't prove that the bible has faked prophy fullfillments, but I can prove it's very possible to fullfill prophecies without God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymba22 Posted December 24, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 588 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/14/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/06/1967 Share Posted December 24, 2005 (edited) How big is the chance for faked prophesies? How big is the chance prophecies can come into being without god? I can't prove that the bible has faked prophy fullfillments, but I can prove it's very possible to fullfill prophecies without God. not all the ones required to be the messiah can be faked. Edited December 24, 2005 by cymba22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted December 24, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted December 24, 2005 How big is the chance for faked prophesies? How big is the chance prophecies can come into being without god? I can't prove that the bible has faked prophy fullfillments, but I can prove it's very possible to fullfill prophecies without God. How does a man fake being born in Bethlehem, being born of a virgin, and dying on a cross? That's quite an amazing achievement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 24, 2005 Share Posted December 24, 2005 How big is the chance for faked prophesies? How big is the chance prophecies can come into being without god? I can't prove that the bible has faked prophy fullfillments, but I can prove it's very possible to fullfill prophecies without God. In order to make any number of prophecies come true, you would have to be in control of every event in your life, and you would also have to be able to control the actions and responses of others to you. You would have to be in control of where, when, and to whom you were born, for starters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted December 24, 2005 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/10/1923 Share Posted December 24, 2005 Whoosh! Where are all these Wallies coming from. Why can't they pump their bilge water into some else's back yard, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted December 24, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 276 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 7,474 Content Per Day: 0.96 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/31/1966 Share Posted December 24, 2005 The bible can't prove the bible. That is called circular reasoning. No, that's called your opinion. t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carter Posted December 24, 2005 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 19 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/21/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/20/1967 Share Posted December 24, 2005 No, it is indeed circular reasoning, but not all is circular reasoning, because the biblke isn't writen as one book. To escpe the circular reasoning, you need differnt books, written at differnt dates. How does a man fake being born in Bethlehem, being born of a virgin, and dying on a cross? That's quite an amazing achievement. He doesn't...But the ones writing a Story about him could. In order to make any number of prophecies come true, you would have to be in control of every event in your life, and you would also have to be able to control the actions and responses of others to you. You would have to be in control of where, when, and to whom you were born, for starters. No...It's very possible to have a revelation that comes true without you controlling it. But it is possible to control some actions into fullfilled prophecies. not all the ones required to be the messiah can be faked. Hi Cymba. Maybe we should discuss this somewere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFaceInTheCrowd Posted December 24, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,138 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/26/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/16/1969 Share Posted December 24, 2005 With GOD all things are possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 24, 2005 Share Posted December 24, 2005 QUOTE How does a man fake being born in Bethlehem, being born of a virgin, and dying on a cross? That's quite an amazing achievement. He doesn't...But the ones writing a Story about him could. Yes, you would have to produce the manuscript for such a charge to carry any weight. Anyone can make the accusation that the stories were made up, but demonstrating that with credible evidence is a different story. QUOTE In order to make any number of prophecies come true, you would have to be in control of every event in your life, and you would also have to be able to control the actions and responses of others to you. You would have to be in control of where, when, and to whom you were born, for starters. No...It's very possible to have a revelation that comes true without you controlling it. But it is possible to control some actions into fullfilled prophecies. Yes a few maybe, but not to the degree that Jesus fulfilled them. To fulfill the number of prophecies that Jesus did, it would require the one doing the fulfilling to be in control of everything including including other people. Jesus' fulfillment was too specific Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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