Guest yod Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneAccord Posted August 2, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 147 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,587 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/03/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 2, 2003 I am quoting this post from the other thread I started on Rev 20:7-10 because it fits here as well. In fact the two threads probably dovetail together, but give us separate angles to look from. Here's the quote: Does the Old Testament speak of a millenial reign at all? Or is this 'millenial kingdom' a notion brought about by Rev 20:7-10 Are we trying to interpret OT prophetic kingdom in light of this passage? Thus far in my journey through the prophetic books of the Bible searching these questions out, I have not found any scripture that makes the restoration of Israel out to be a thousand year reign that ends in one last war. There seems to be only ONE day of the Lord, not two different events(Tribulation and later Gog and Magog), one kingdom and not two consecutive kingdoms. The only way I can make this millenial kingdom fit is if I consider the Day of the Lord to be a thousand year Day, that begins with a night of wrath (Trib) and ends with a 1000 year glorious kingdom on earth. But even then I still don't see the final war mentioned in Rev:7-10 alluded to in OT prophecy. yod: Where do you see the New Jerusalem coming at the end of the millenium? I'm not sure I find scriptures supporting this. What other scriptures besides Rev 20:7-10 are used to support the millenial kingdom notion? New or Old Testament can both be considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader4Christ Posted August 2, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 72 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,029 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 2, 2003 OA: Check Revelation 20:4. It describes at the end of the verse that those of Christ ( the saints ) will reign with Jesus for 1000 years ( a millennium ). Revelation 20:4 "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years." God bless you sister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneAccord Posted August 2, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 147 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,587 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/03/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 2, 2003 Is there an earthly kingdom for 1000 years and then an eternal heavenly kingdom after the millenium? Yes but they kind of co-exist during the Millenium. The saved will be governing and ruling the earth but will be a part of the eternal kingdom. This is a plausible theroy here, this idea of the two kingdoms co-existing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shilou Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Yod also check out Ezekiel Chapter one for a better description of the throne room in heaven, it fits in perfect with Johns description. In Yeshua's love shilou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yod Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yod Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneAccord Posted August 2, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 147 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,587 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/03/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 2, 2003 So are there two New Jerusalems??? One for the millenial earthly kingdom and one for the eternal heavenly kingdom??? If there is only one New Jerusalem, then Isaiah must be talking about the eternal heavenly kingdom OR Revelation is talking about the millenial kingdom. Do you see the confusion? And the assumptions that we are basing a lot of our prophetic interpretations on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adstar Posted August 2, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,399 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 1,307 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted August 2, 2003 wow looks like confusion reigns here Ok I will just try to make it simple again. In the 1000 year reign of the Messiah Jesus a Temple will be built this temple has been described in the Book of Isaiah it is measured and given dimensions it is a physical building. Now of you look at revelation you will see that after the 1000 years and the defeat of the final rebellion a "New Jerusalem" will come down from the heavens it is a physical city. read the description: 10And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy[8] Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11having the glory of God. Her light was like a most precious stone, like a jasper stone, clear as crystal. 12Also she had a great and high wall with twelve gates, and twelve angels at the gates, and names written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: 13three gates on the east, three gates on the north, three gates on the south, and three gates on the west. 14Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names[9] of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. 15And he who talked with me had a gold reed to measure the city, its gates, and its wall. 16The city is laid out as a square; its length is as great as its breadth. And he measured the city with the reed: twelve thousand furlongs. Its length, breadth, and height are equal. See it is given dimensions, this city is massive it is 12,000 furlongs SQUARE. The top of this city if its base is at ground level will reach into space. If you look at the dimensions of the temple in Isaiah it is no where near as big as the "New Jerusalem". Now for the saints who rule in the 1000 year kingdom that kingdom for them will be just the start of the eternal kingdom. for they will simply continue on into the eternal kingdom without interruption. but for the dead who are judged at the final judgment the eternal kingdom will be the only one they shall see. They will be dead during the 1000 year reign of the Messiah. The new earth and new Heaven: Revelation 21 1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. This happens after the great white throne judgment. The Great white throne judgment happens after the satanic rebellion is crushed the satanic rebellion happens at the end of the 1000 year reign of The Messiah and the 1000 year reign starts after the tribulation/wrath. All Praise The Ancient Of Days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneAccord Posted August 3, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 147 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,587 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/03/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 3, 2003 Adstar: I thank you for that clear and simple explanation of the timeline of the two kingdoms. I understand that timeline for the most part. What I don't understand is Old Testament prophecy references to the kingdom. In the OT there doesn't seem to be any distinction between a 1000 year kingdom and an eternal kingdom. Are there OT references to both kingdoms, or is one of them veiled, sealed up if you will, until NT Revelation? Question from your post: What is the difference between the dead and the saints? Also, FYI, the temple is described in Ezekiel, not Isaiah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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