Crusader4Christ Posted July 25, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 72 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,029 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted July 25, 2003 Well Shadow, Ezekiel 38 talks about the Invasion of Israel by Magog (Russia), and Gog ( prince of Russia.) This invasion is prior to Armageddon. The one in Revelation describes AFTER the millennium. The invasion of Israel on this earth by Russia, and other countries, is before the Millennium. I know it sounds confusing, and you might say " but if Gog and Magog are destroyed before Armageddon, who is Gog and Magog in the final attempted invasion after the Millennium?" Well, the land of Magog will still exist, but the king and the army before Armageddon was totally annihilated. A new prince of Russia (Gog) and Russia (Magog) will probably be gathered by Satan. If you read Revelation 20:8, you will see that Gog and Magog are as the number of sand in the sea. I wouldn't doubt that many are demons. I hoped this helped Shadow. I will clarify more if you me to. This is a very hard topic for me to explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shadow2b Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 Well Shadow, Ezekiel 38 talks about the Invasion of Israel by Magog (Russia), and Gog ( prince of Russia.) This invasion is prior to Armageddon. The one in Revelation describes AFTER the millennium. The invasion of Israel on this earth by Russia, and other countries, is before the Millennium. I know it sounds confusing, and you might say " but if Gog and Magog are destroyed before Armageddon, who is Gog and Magog in the final attempted invasion after the Millennium?" Well, the land of Magog will still exist, but the king and the army before Armageddon was totally annihilated. A new prince of Russia (Gog) and Russia (Magog) will probably be gathered by Satan. If you read Revelation 20:8, you will see that Gog and Magog are as the number of sand in the sea. I wouldn't doubt that many are demons. I hoped this helped Shadow. I will clarify more if you me to. This is a very hard topic for me to explain. YEPPpppp you're right Bro.--very confusing at times-----uhhhhhh?--O.K. lets continue -----hmmmm???? in rev.20.vss.1.thru.8----the devil is bound for 1,000years---"WE" reign with JESUS for the 1,000years ---the trib.saints are resurrected & rule & reign with the rest of the saints RIGHT?????--in vs.7--the devil is loosed from the pit----he gathers his army[ that jerk is soooo STUPID} i mean he's already spent 1,000 years in the pit,now he gathersUP a bunch more STUPID human men & attack JESUS,the saints & no doubt michael & all of GOD'S warrior angels----NOW "THAT" has got to be {THE} absolute heighth of "STUPIDITY" don't it???????---vs.10---supports the two wars--armageddon before the 1,000year reign--the final war after that---o.k. fill me in more please------Gary------ :il: :il: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shadow2b Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 Well Shadow, Ezekiel 38 talks about the Invasion of Israel by Magog (Russia), and Gog ( prince of Russia.) This invasion is prior to Armageddon. The one in Revelation describes AFTER the millennium. The invasion of Israel on this earth by Russia, and other countries, is before the Millennium. I know it sounds confusing, and you might say " but if Gog and Magog are destroyed before Armageddon, who is Gog and Magog in the final attempted invasion after the Millennium?" Well, the land of Magog will still exist, but the king and the army before Armageddon was totally annihilated. A new prince of Russia (Gog) and Russia (Magog) will probably be gathered by Satan. If you read Revelation 20:8, you will see that Gog and Magog are as the number of sand in the sea. I wouldn't doubt that many are demons. I hoped this helped Shadow. I will clarify more if you me to. This is a very hard topic for me to explain. YEPPpppp you're right Bro.--very confusing at times-----uhhhhhh?--O.K. lets continue -----hmmmm???? in rev.20.vss.1.thru.8----the devil is bound for 1,000years---"WE" reign with JESUS for the 1,000years ---the trib.saints are resurrected & rule & reign with the rest of the saints RIGHT?????--in vs.7--the devil is loosed from the pit----he gathers his army[ that jerk is soooo STUPID} i mean he's already spent 1,000 years in the pit,now he gathersUP a bunch more STUPID human men & attack JESUS,the saints & no doubt michael & all of GOD'S warrior angels----NOW "THAT" has got to be {THE} absolute heighth of "STUPIDITY" don't it???????---vs.10---supports the two wars--armageddon before the 1,000year reign--the final war after that---o.k. fill me in more please------Gary------ :il: :il: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adstar Posted July 25, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,399 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 1,307 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted July 25, 2003 I have come to realize in the course of the Book of Isaiah thread that I really don't comprehend the coming kingdom. I'm fairly confused about it. Is the millenenial kingdom different from the eternal kingdom? Is there an earthly kingdom for 1000 years and then an eternal heavenly kingdom after the millenium? Does everyone get resurrected to live in the millenial kingdom or are we waiting for the eternal kingdom? Where does the 'rapture' fit into this? If the church is raptured out, are they then brought back to earth for the millenial kingdom? Is the passing away of the old earth by fire before the millenial kindgom or after the 1000 years? In other words, is the millenial kingdom on the new earth? I have more questions but I'll start with this. Hello OneAccord :il: Well there has been many words said and scriptures quoted on these boards about the millennium, rapture and the second coming. If you want to go to the prophesy section you can have hours of reading fun getting the future from every angle. So I will not bother with quoting scripture here I will just give some thoughts and let it be. The Kingdom/Kingdoms To me there are 3 kingdoms in one. 1) There is a kingdom that exist now and has existed since the day of Pentecost all true followers of the Messiah Jesus are part of this kingdom it is not an earthly kingdom with borders armies and diplomats it is a kingdom of the Heart of Mind of Spirit. 2) There is a kingdom to come that will last 1000 years it will be a kingdom on earth with the Messiah Jesus as its ruler and He will rule the entire world. His true followers will rule with Him, but still under His ruler ship. So every member of the first kingdom will take part in the second kingdom which is the first kingdom only changed in form. 3) The final kingdom will be an Eternal kingdom that will come about at the end of the 1000 year reign of the Messiah Jesus on the earth. At that time there will be created a new earth and a new heaven this is when the new Jerusalem will come down from the heavens and land on earth and God will dwell inside this city. This city has 12 gates and the true followers of the Messiah Jesus will be able to enter and leave this city at will, they will be able to see God for God will be the light of this city. So the 3 kingdoms are the same kingdom but it is a kingdom that at critical times changes its form, like when a crub changes into a butterfly. Rapture: The rapture/catching up/first resurrection will occur at the end of the first kingdom and it will herald the start of the second 1000 year kingdom. most Christians in here believe in the rapture but they have differing ideas as to when it will occur. I believe it will occur when the number of the people who will be true believers in the Messiah Jesus has been reached or fulfilled. What is that number ? I have absolutely no idea. But from scripture I believe that this number will not be reached until a great tribulation/ persecution is suffered by the true believers of the Messiah Jesus. This persecution will be carried out by followers of the Antichrist / son of perdition. This ruler will be the final ruler before the coming of the Messiah. The great tribulation is talked about in the Book of revelations I believe it will end at the time of rapture From scripture I believe this will occur upon the sounding of the last trumpet talked about in revelations. I believe there is a time difference between the rapture/first resurrection and The battle of Armageddon because some time will be given for Gods wrath to be poured out upon the world as revenge for the persecution of the saints. How long this will take ??? I have no idea. But I do not think it will be long. Resurrection: There are 2 resurrections to come: 1) Resurrection of the true followers of the Messiah Jesus. This will occur at the end of the tribulation at the time of the rapture. It may happen before the rapture but I believe they will happen within a twinkling of an eye of each other. All these people will from that day be eternal and shall never know death again they shall always be with the Messiah Jesus from that time on. 2) Resurrection of the rest. This will occur at the end of the 1000 year realign of the Messiah Jesus after the final satanic rebellion is destroyed by God. This resurrection will be immediately followed by the final judgment where the Book of life will be opened and people will be judged by what is written in the book of Life. Well OA there you have it :il: All Praise The Ancient Of Days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader4Christ Posted July 25, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 72 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,029 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted July 25, 2003 Okay Shadow. Now, after Armageddon, is the Marriage Supper, then the Millennium, and then after the 1000 years, Satan will be released, but will not ATTACK, but ATTEMPT to attack the "camp of the Saints", the "beloved city", which is most likely Jerusalem. The keyword there is ATTEMPT to attack the camp. Satan, the demons, and many rebelling humans, will surround the camp of the saints, the "beloved city", but they will be "devoured by fire from Heaven." Well Shadow, it's more desperation and vengeance then stupidity. After that, the old heavens and the old earth shall be burned up with fervent heat ( 2 Peter 3:10-13). Need more info Shadow? Need more clarification? God bless you brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shadow2b Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 Okay Shadow. Now, after Armageddon, is the Marriage Supper, then the Millennium, and then after the 1000 years, Satan will be released, but will not ATTACK, but ATTEMPT to attack the "camp of the Saints", the "beloved city", which is most likely Jerusalem. The keyword there is ATTEMPT to attack the camp. Satan, the demons, and many rebelling humans, will surround the camp of the saints, the "beloved city", but they will be "devoured by fire from Heaven." Well Shadow, it's more desperation and vengeance then stupidity. After that, the old heavens and the old earth shall be burned up with fervent heat ( 2 Peter 3:10-13). Need more info Shadow? Need more clarification? God bless you brother. WeLL,bro. you & ADSTAR are doing a prety good job of splainin things--SO please continue--little sloooowwer rr tho huhh??? ATTEMPT???? TO ATTACK???? ya know what bro??? REV. .20.vs.8---it states the number of whom is as the sand of the sea----- Didn't GOD TELL abraham that Ishmael would have children that were as numerous as the SEA????? SO GOG & MAGOG could very likely be ALL the arab nations led by the Russians????? ------thanks heaps Bro.-------Gary--- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneAccord Posted July 26, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 147 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,587 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/03/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 26, 2003 Adstar: Great response, sometimes it's easier to have things spelled out in plain English. I guess one thing I am having trouble picturing is this: If the New Heaven and New Earth come after the millenial kingdom, that means that the 1000 kingdom on earth will be built on the ruins wrought by the Great Tribulation. This place is gonna be in pretty rough shape, not a pretty picture. Dead bodies everywhere, rubble, charred remains, you get my drift. Is there some sort of restoration promised for the earth in those days? Sounds like a lot of hard work rebuilding is there is not some sort of miraculous healing of the land and the earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted July 26, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted July 26, 2003 Interesting point. But then again, there's something to be said for making us do "the dirty work" and cleaning up our own mess. We've lived our lives knowing how to be destructive of the Earth; it would be a good lesson to learn how to treat it properly. Just another way of looking at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader4Christ Posted July 26, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 72 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,029 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted July 26, 2003 Quote from Shadow2b: (Crusader4Christ @ Jul 25 2003, 12:01 AM) Okay Shadow. Now, after Armageddon, is the Marriage Supper, then the Millennium, and then after the 1000 years, Satan will be released, but will not ATTACK, but ATTEMPT to attack the "camp of the Saints", the "beloved city", which is most likely Jerusalem. The keyword there is ATTEMPT to attack the camp. Satan, the demons, and many rebelling humans, will surround the camp of the saints, the "beloved city", but they will be "devoured by fire from Heaven." Well Shadow, it's more desperation and vengeance then stupidity. After that, the old heavens and the old earth shall be burned up with fervent heat ( 2 Peter 3:10-13). Need more info Shadow? Need more clarification? God bless you brother. WeLL,bro. you & ADSTAR are doing a prety good job of splainin things--SO please continue--little sloooowwer rr tho huhh??? ATTEMPT???? TO ATTACK???? ya know what bro??? REV. .20.vs.8---it states the number of whom is as the sand of the sea----- Didn't GOD TELL abraham that Ishmael would have children that were as numerous as the SEA????? SO GOG & MAGOG could very likely be ALL the arab nations led by the Russians????? ------thanks heaps Bro.-------Gary--- Shadow, Gog and Magog would be Russia and the Prince of Russia, and myriads of demons and rebelling humans. You might be right though about the Arab nations being part of it. We know that Gog and Magog (Russia), Put (Libya), Togarmah(Turkey), Gomer(Possibly Germany?), and those countries will be destroyed before Armageddon in the Invasion of Israel right? So, after the millennium, when the world is better looking, Gog and Magog, and the rebelling humans, and the myriads of demons, and Satan, will surround "the camp of the saints", the "beloved city". They will attempt to attack them, but they will be devoured with a fire from Heaven. Then, they (Satan, the myriads of demons, the rebelling humans) will be all tossed into the lake of fire, where the Antichrist and the False Prophet will be also. After this, the Lord shall conquer death and hell ( Revelation 20:14). But, there is still the Great White Throne Judgment. This comes after Satan is tossed into hell. Now, Revelation says this about the Great White Throne Judgment. Revelation 20:11-15 "And I saw a Great White Throne, and Him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them." "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of these things which were written in the books, according to their works." "And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works." "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." So, everyone, alive and dead, small and great, shall stand before God, in the Valley of Judgment ( Valley of Jehoshaphat), and He shall judge everyone ac- cording to their works. After this Judgment, when those who were demons, and evil men, are tossed into the Lake of Fire, the Lord shall burn up the old heavens and the old earth with fervent heat ( 2 Peter 3:10-13.) After this, the new heavens and the new earth are formed, and the eternal kingdom of God is set up, and we shall walk with Him, and live with Him for eternity. Amen. Well Shadow. Certainly soon, I shall post a new topic about Ezekiel 38 and 39. There you will find more info on the Invasion of Israel before Armageddon. God bless you brother. PS: Always glad to give more clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adstar Posted July 26, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,399 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 1,307 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted July 26, 2003 Adstar: Great response, sometimes it's easier to have things spelled out in plain English. I guess one thing I am having trouble picturing is this: If the New Heaven and New Earth come after the millenial kingdom, that means that the 1000 kingdom on earth will be built on the ruins wrought by the Great Tribulation. This place is gonna be in pretty rough shape, not a pretty picture. Dead bodies everywhere, rubble, charred remains, you get my drift. Is there some sort of restoration promised for the earth in those days? Sounds like a lot of hard work rebuilding is there is not some sort of miraculous healing of the land and the earth. Isaiah 49 8Thus says the LORD:     "In an acceptable time I have heard You,     And in the day of salvation I have helped You;     I will preserve You and give You     As a covenant to the people,     To restore the earth,     To cause them to inherit the desolate heritages;     9That You may say to the prisoners, "Go forth,'     To those who are in darkness, "Show yourselves.'     "They shall feed along the roads,     And their pastures shall be on all desolate heights.     10They shall neither hunger nor thirst,     Neither heat nor sun shall strike them;     For He who has mercy on them will lead them,     Even by the springs of water He will guide them.     11I will make each of My mountains a road,     And My highways shall be elevated.     12Surely these shall come from afar;     Look! Those from the north and the west,     And these from the land of Sinim."     13Sing, O heavens!     Be joyful, O earth!     And break out in singing, O mountains!     For the LORD has comforted His people,     And will have mercy on His afflicted. Well OneAccord No matter what condition the world is in when the Messiah Returns We know that we will be supported while the earth is being "restored". From the level of destruction prophesized in the book of revelation it seems that there may not even be much rubble to clear. If I can use an analogy: If you have a furnace that burns waste and it burns at 250 degrees then there is a lot of pollutants that escape out of the chimneystack and contaminates the surrounding countryside. But if you have that furnace burning at 2000 degrees then even the pollutants are destroyed. I have a feeling that the wrath of God talked about in revelations will be like that 2000 degrees furnace. But no matter what the state of the world after the Messiah returns We will not suffer again. All Praise The Ancient Of Days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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