Iryssa Posted March 16, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 117 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,860 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/10/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/13/1984 Share Posted March 16, 2006 *nods* I think there are times when it is demon posession and times when it is medical. I wouldn't say that it's JUST one or the other for every situation. Why not? Where's the distinction? I honestly don't know, exactly. I think there are probably ways you could tell, though, if you knew someone in that situation. Does the mention of God seem to affect them? Things like that. I don't really know much about schizophrenia itself. I have, however, had expereince with depression, and can say for certain that there is a large difference between medical and spiritual depression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micah68 Posted March 16, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 224 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/25/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted March 16, 2006 Fascinating topic. Can a person kick their demons out on their own? Can a good psychotherapist kick demons out of her clients or help them to kick the demons out? Can a psychotropic drug kick demons out? For those who have been demon-possessed: How do you know what you experienced was not psychosis? For those who have experienced mental illness: How do you know that you weren't demon-possessed? A natural human being is no match for a spirit. However, you can read in the gospels exactly how to 'kick a demon out.' Jesus did it in order to show us how to do it. Then he gave us the power over the spirit world so that we'd have the power to do it. Everything has as its cause something in the spirit world. There may appear to be a natural cause but then again what caused that? The spirit world. In the end there is only good and evil. Good comes from God and the evil comes from the other guy. Kick out the evil. Use Scripture as Jesus did and rebuke them. Read about all the times that Jesus cast out evil spirits. He is our teacher and example and the source of the power to overcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamie Posted March 16, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 104 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,026 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/13/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted March 16, 2006 Demons operate through lies, as long as a person believes a demons lies they can stay in a person and manipulate them. For instance, a person believes that they are worthless and lives their life according to a demon of rejection. Until the lie is exposed through the truth of Gods word and through discipleship and counsel, that demon can operate. Once the truth is exposed and accepted by the person, the demons hold is broken and delieverance is a piece of cake. There should be a counceling process, you don't just start casting out demons without counseling the person. You have to find the doorways that those demons gained entrance and close them. Jesus fully restored at the moment he cast them out, i've never seen that done by a human....i've only wittnessed the process I already mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted March 16, 2006 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/10/1923 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Good thread. One question I would ask is this.What is the difference between a christian suffering with depression or schizophrenia and a non christian. In other words why would satan ( if it is satan ) attack someone who has never heard of the Lord.... He belongs to satan in the first place and has to take medication as the only remedy. In answer to copper scroll's question . can a person kick the demons out on their own? Well I can only answer that with a quote from Jesus Himself. Luke.10:19 Behold I have given you the authority to tread upon serpents and scorpions and over all the power of the enemy of the earth and nothing will do you any harm. (text from memory ) Now after saying that, I have just come off anti derpressants after a year on them, but I don't blame the enemy for being depressed in the first place, but I thank God for providing the doctor for his diagnosis and treatment. just a thought, e. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrLuke Posted March 16, 2006 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 628 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/07/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1985 Share Posted March 16, 2006 In answer to copper scroll's question . can a person kick the demons out on their own? Well I can only answer that with a quote from Jesus Himself. Luke.10:19 Behold I have given you the authority to tread upon serpents and scorpions and over all the power of the enemy of the earth and nothing will do you any harm. (text from memory ) Yes but that is the authority given to Spirit filled believers - not the oppressed and unbelieving. I can tell you from personal experience that you can't kick them out by your own power and effort. No matter how much you want them to go and leave you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Copper Scroll Posted March 16, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 682 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/25/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted March 16, 2006 I have difficulty in this distinction between the "natural" and the "supernatural". The two seem so intertwined that a distinction between them is pointless and can be misleading. If things that I experience physical or my physical actions have psychic and spiritual consequences--and if my spiritual experiences manifest in my thoughts and actions--what's the point of drawing lines between them? We call demons supernatural but their actions on us are natural events--right? I don't know. I'm not convinced of this distinction between mental illness and demonic involvement in the mind. Neither am I convinced of the distinction between physical illness and demonic involvement in the body. We call demons willful, destructive/chaotic forces in the world that act on us. Just because the sciences explain how many of them work doesn't mean that they are not at work. When psychopathology was largely a mystery to us, we had nothing else to attribute mental illness to besides demons. I believe these demons have always been at work--taking advantage of our vulnerabilities (physical and mental) and thereby making us sick. Knowing how they work has helped us to combat them. Even if we can't destroy them, therapy can help us to release their grip and cast them out. Therapy can help to resolve the intrapsychic conflicts that can lie at the root of mental illness--the same conflicts demons exploit. If those conflicts are removed, the demon has nothing to hang onto. We need Christ mainly because the human condition is in an existential and moral crisis. Christ resolves this crisis, leaving Satan with nothing to hang on to. Does anyone else see the parallels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted March 16, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted March 16, 2006 I have difficulty in this distinction between the "natural" and the "supernatural". The two seem so intertwined that a distinction between them is pointless and can be misleading. If things that I experience physical or my physical actions have psychic and spiritual consequences--and if my spiritual experiences manifest in my thoughts and actions--what's the point of drawing lines between them? We call demons supernatural but their actions on us are natural events--right? I don't know. I'm not convinced of this distinction between mental illness and demonic involvement in the mind. Neither am I convinced of the distinction between physical illness and demonic involvement in the body. We call demons willful, destructive/chaotic forces in the world that act on us. Just because the sciences explain how many of them work doesn't mean that they are not at work. When psychopathology was largely a mystery to us, we had nothing else to attribute mental illness to besides demons. I believe these demons have always been at work--taking advantage of our vulnerabilities (physical and mental) and thereby making us sick. Knowing how they work has helped us to combat them. Even if we can't destroy them, therapy can help us to release their grip and cast them out. Therapy can help to resolve the intrapsychic conflicts that can lie at the root of mental illness--the same conflicts demons exploit. If those conflicts are removed, the demon has nothing to hang onto. We need Christ mainly because the human condition is in an existential and moral crisis. Christ resolves this crisis, leaving Satan with nothing to hang on to. Does anyone else see the parallels? *cough* One of my previous posts: I'm still curious as to why the natural cannot solve the spiritual and vise versa. smile.gif We believe that there can be spiritual healings, or that demons can ruin our health...in other words we have no problem believing that the spiritual world can either help or hinder the physical world. Why then, could the opposite not be true? Could the physial world aid or hinder the spiritual world? If this is true, if it is a two-way street, then why could medical technologies or practices not solve for certain posessions or spiritual problems? I'm not sure if that is what you are saying, but if it is, then yes, I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Copper Scroll Posted March 16, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 682 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/25/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted March 16, 2006 *cough* Sorry. I did mean to acknowledge what you wrote. Thanks. I was mainly responding to things people wrote after you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieW Posted March 16, 2006 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 16 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted March 16, 2006 Wow - thats a really heavy topic. Surely if the Scriptures say demon possession then that's exactly what it was. Jesus knew what he was dealing with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David from New Bern Posted March 16, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 527 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/21/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/03/1964 Author Share Posted March 16, 2006 Wow - thats a really heavy topic. Surely if the Scriptures say demon possession then that's exactly what it was. Jesus knew what he was dealing with. Thanks for the guts to say you believe the Bible literally...I respect that whole heartedly...In the words of the late Adrian Rogers, "when I get to heaven, it will be alright with me if the Lord says, 'you took Me too literal on that, but at least you took me serious.'" However, I believe you can be conservative and not water down the authority of Scripture to consider culture and science limitations when considering a passage. Remember, the writers of the gospel were writing under inspiration, I personally don't believe the whole Bible was dictated. But that is a whole other thread, isn't it. But JamieW, yours is a viable point in this discussion. The Demonaic was definitely demon possessed, remember the reverse of that question would be, Would we consider him today to be a classic paranoid/schizophrenic? The young child who was rolling around in convulsions was considered a demon possessed individual in the narrative of the Bible. Would we diagnose him today as an epileptic? I am not asking anyone to assume the Bible is ignorant of a medical or psychological condition as much am I saying that we in the contemporary are calling a spiritual issue a physiological one. Am I communicationg or confusing the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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