Blood Stained Soul Posted August 31, 2003 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 353 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/25/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 31, 2003 Greetings in Christ Jesus! I have a bsic understanding of what the JW'S believe...I just do not understand why they do so or how they get the scriptures to make sense to them...for instance they teach from Revelation chapter 7 that only 144,000 make it to Heaven but other Saints will somehow make it on Paradise here on Earth...strange... 1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. 2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, 3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. 4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. 5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. 6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand. 7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. 8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand. Here we see that these 144,000 people shall be from the 12 Tribes of Israel...which kind of leaves out all those gentiles Paul spent some 40 years or so preaching to all the way up till now....plus most JW,s I would suspect...but a few chapter over we see it get broken down evenfurther... 1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God. We see here that this group of people is Virgin Males....that really Breaks the list down a whole lot more...so with all this said...how do they get around these scriptures and people eat this false teaching... Blessings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader4Christ Posted August 31, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 72 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,029 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 31, 2003 What's the point of this thread BSS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Stained Soul Posted August 31, 2003 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 353 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/25/2003 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 31, 2003 What's the point of this thread BSS? Greetings in Christ! Just trying to learn more about the JW's and how and why they believe what they do. The more I learn the better I can witness to them. Why do you ask? Blessings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader4Christ Posted August 31, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 72 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,029 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 31, 2003 I see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adstar Posted August 31, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,399 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 1,307 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted August 31, 2003 I suppose the best place to post you question is at a forum that has JW'S. All Praise The Ancient Of Days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Stained Soul Posted August 31, 2003 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 353 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/25/2003 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 31, 2003 I suppose the best place to post you question is at a forum that has JW'S. All Praise The Ancient Of Days Greetings in Christ! I would rather ask a forum full of informative Christians who can shed LIGHT and not darkness on issues...I see what your saying though...ask the blind about beng blind...but having dealt with some...I do not find them truthful...least ones I have dealt with... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted August 31, 2003 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.51 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/10/1923 Share Posted August 31, 2003 try some of the apologetic sites such as calm or deception in the church. You wont get much joy from this board on that subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steward George Posted September 1, 2003 Group: Steward Followers: 110 Topic Count: 10,467 Topics Per Day: 1.25 Content Count: 27,824 Content Per Day: 3.32 Reputation: 15,599 Days Won: 131 Joined: 06/30/2001 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/21/1971 Steward Share Posted September 1, 2003 If you want to talk about different cults. Go to CARM - JW's board (Christian Apologetics Research Ministry) -- they specifically deal with cults on their boards. By the time you leave you may be amazed how many cults there are in the world! Take care and God bless, George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godrulz Posted September 1, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 885 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/25/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/19/1960 Share Posted September 1, 2003 I share your burden for J.W.'s and think this is an acceptable forum to equip ourselves in biblical understanding. You stopped your quote too soon (Rev. 7:1-8): Rev. 7:9 "After this I looked and there before me was a GREAT MULTITUDE (not just 144,000) that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing (where?) BEFORE THE THRONE and in front of the Lamb (in heaven, not paradise earth). Rev. 7:13 ff. says they are before the throne of God and came out of the great Tribulation. Rev. 19:1 "...a great multitude in heaven..." The J.W.s have created a 2 class system of salvation with an earthly and heavenly hope (early leaders dreamt this one up). Only the supposed 144,000 are considered born again and sons of God (Jn. 3:3 is clear "Unless a man is born again, He cannot see the kingdom of God" The JWs all want to be in the kingdom). Only this superspiritual class take their annual Memorial (like communion), while the average Witness lets the emblems pass. How sad and deluded. They negate the power of Christ's death and resurrection in favor of a 2 class works oriented system. They base this on 2 proof-texts clearly out of context, as you have pointed out. We believe we have a heavenly hope based on the weight of Scripture and being the one Bride of Christ through faith. They interpret much of the N.T. as only applying to the 144,000?! They are correct though, in some ways, in that there will be a new paradise on earth repopulated by Tribulation saints who are not killed (as opposed to all believers in the Church Age who are absent from the body and present with the Lord; they also believe in soul-sleep and annihilation vs hell). The millennium will see humans repopulate the earth, with the New Jerusalem and the glorified saints coming down for eternity (the City of God/heaven will be above the earth). The cults are a mission field at our doorstep. Let us love them and boldly proclaim the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Stained Soul Posted September 1, 2003 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 353 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/25/2003 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 1, 2003 Greetings in Christ! Thanks for your very informative post. I had wondered how they worked out salvation since they negate the diety of Christ and all. I think the hint from George about going to CARM(Whos Newsletter I get) meant this kind of topic is not wanted here...being that I do not want to get the Duane treatment and have an unwanted thread closed before I could learn I would ask that you would email me sometime and we could hammer this out more...people like them are gonna come to sites like this to lead people astray like they do in real life and you need to have yourselves prepared...only way to do so is to have open discussion on the topic. Least thats my humble opinion on the matter...Blessings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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