seraphimbride Posted May 3, 2006 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 39 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/20/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted May 3, 2006 Apothanein kerdos, I have a question for you regarding "good" and "very good" pertaining to creation in Genesis. I was wondering if the problem with this was translation into English, and you clarify that for me. My question is how do you know when to take something literally in the gospel, or if what you're reading is less than what the English translation can provide? Interested in your remarks. Pre-thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seraphimbride Posted May 3, 2006 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 39 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/20/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted May 3, 2006 I totally agree with you Kittylover re: the put-downs. They are not necessary to get a point through, and lower the moral integrity of this site. This is not to be intended with judgement. We are all sinners. This is a Christian forum. We dont have to agree, but I wish we could all agree to respect other people and their opinions. It seems the Christian way to communicate. Dont u think? REMEMBER: WE ARE ALL TALKING TO CHILDREN OF GOD!! aLL PEACE aLL LOVE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seraphimbride Posted May 3, 2006 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 39 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/20/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted May 3, 2006 Tess, Forgive my ignorance, but I've seen this posted before. "bump" Can you translate. I have no idea what that means! THX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seraphimbride Posted May 3, 2006 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 39 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/20/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted May 3, 2006 (edited) Please pre-forgive my ignorance. I'm rather new to studying the Bible. Actually, I'm not even at a point of study. I'm just trying to get more familiar with it and grasp some meaning from it. I have a view that formed in my mind and i'm not sure where it came from. Would it be correct in some sense to say that the events that take place in Revelations will bring man back to God's original intention for man, (before the fall) and that it is what the entire bible leads up to; that man will come full-circle and will once again be sin-free, when Jesus establishes his rule of heaven on earth. The ones who are chosen as his bridegrooms will inherit what Adam had before the fall, i.e. God's original intent---for man to live in love for his neighbor, so that there would be no sin--all man living only to give glory to HIS Creator? (as of course, it should be, today) NOTE: In no way am I saying that I know whaT God's original intent for creating man was, and for the record, neither do you. Man can only speculate and wander unless God chooses to reveal himself to someone. We can all learn form the Bible and it can be used as an excellent example as how to lead our lives-but no one really knows what God intends--any way, I've strayed. Full-cirle? It's no coincidence, I'm sure, that a circle represents eternity!! Edited May 3, 2006 by seraphimbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Ernie Posted May 3, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,802 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/29/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/01/1945 Share Posted May 3, 2006 Would it be correct in some sense to say that the events that take place in Revelations will bring man back to God's original intention for man, (before the fall) and that it is what the entire bible leads up to; that man will come full-circle and will once again be sin-free, when Jesus establishes his rule of heaven on earth. The ones who are chosen as his bridegrooms will inherit what Adam had before the fall, i.e. God's original intent---for man to live in love for his neighbor, so that there would be no sin--all man living only to give glory to HIS Creator? (as of course, it should be, today) Full-cirle? It's no coincidence, I'm sure, that a circle represents eternity!! Greetings Seraphim Bride, Consider: 1 Cor 15:47-53 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. We know that Jesus walked on water. He suddenly appeared and disappeared from a locale. He is eternally alive. He walked right up into the clouds and disappeared. These are some of the characteristics of the "glorified body". So no, we will not come "full circle". With Adam it was a physical existence, unglorified. Our new bodies will be in temples created by God that will glow with His Glory. Hope that helps. Blessings, Dad Ernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted May 3, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted May 3, 2006 Apothanein kerdos, I have a question for you regarding "good" and "very good" pertaining to creation in Genesis. I was wondering if the problem with this was translation into English, and you clarify that for me. My question is how do you know when to take something literally in the gospel, or if what you're reading is less than what the English translation can provide? Interested in your remarks. Pre-thanks! It is a problem with the English translation. It would be better rendered, "Acceptable to God's standards" which happen to be perfection (as we know from Mosaic Law). We know this by looking to the Hebrew and then translating it into modern English Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabowd Posted May 3, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 112 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,489 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted May 3, 2006 Greetings Seraphim Bride, Consider: 1 Cor 15:47-53 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. First, we need to consider Paul's audience. The Sadducees (and the Gnostics who were prevalent in Corinth) did not believe in the resurrection of the dead. Beginning in verse 35, he addresses the questions they are bringing forth (about how a person will be raised, what the body will be like, etc). Paul describes the various differences in bodies (animals, humans, fish, birds) and then explains the difference between what are "earthly bodies" and "heavenly bodies" (vs. 39-41). Verse 47 (above), which compares Adam with Christ, in no way means that Adam was created less than perfect. It's simply stating that Adam was created out of the earth (another part of God's creation by the way), and that Christ was from heaven (ref. John 3:13). 1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. We know that Jesus walked on water. He suddenly appeared and disappeared from a locale. He is eternally alive. He walked right up into the clouds and disappeared. These are some of the characteristics of the "glorified body". So no, we will not come "full circle". With Adam it was a physical existence, unglorified. Our new bodies will be in temples created by God that will glow with His Glory. The verses you use do not support the belief that Adam was imperfect. For one, if Adam was created the image of God, how could he be considered "unglorified" or to not reflect God's glory? Please pre-forgive my ignorance. I'm rather new to studying the Bible. Actually, I'm not even at a point of study. I'm just trying to get more familiar with it and grasp some meaning from it. I have a view that formed in my mind and i'm not sure where it came from. Would it be correct in some sense to say that the events that take place in Revelations will bring man back to God's original intention for man, (before the fall) and that it is what the entire bible leads up to; that man will come full-circle and will once again be sin-free, when Jesus establishes his rule of heaven on earth. The ones who are chosen as his bridegrooms will inherit what Adam had before the fall, i.e. God's original intent---for man to live in love for his neighbor, so that there would be no sin--all man living only to give glory to HIS Creator? (as of course, it should be, today) I think you're speculations are correct. At the very beginning I stated the importance of how we view creation, because it affects how we see everything else. Your questions posed above essentially bring us back to the core questions that every human being asks: why are we here? In Acts 17, when Paul is addressing the various philosophies present at Mars Hill, he starts with their concept of Creation because he knows this is where their belief begins incorrectly. Throughout this topic we've discussed the issue of God's image, but nevertheless, the fact remains that after the fall some aspect of this image was lost, thus God's plan to send Christ to "restore" us. Verses like Colossians 3:10 teach us that Christ restores the image of God, and yet verses like 1 Cor. 11:7 show us that some aspect of it still remains. This is the reason most scholars arrived at the belief that the image is marred, but not destroyed. This also gives us the basis for valuing life and our physical existence in our present world. Moving on towards your questions about Revelation, Scripture teaches us that while we are on this earth our bodies are unredeemed. We experience sickness and death as the result of the fall, but when Christ returns to establish His kingdom on earth....our bodies will be fully redeemed, glorified. The important thing to realize here though, is that even though we have to wait for our bodies to be redeemed, we don't have to wait for God's purpose for us to be restored. Once we are in Christ, He restores our purpose (to reflect God's glory), and we are to begin doing this while we're still on this earth. This is referred to as the Cultural Mandate. In that sense, our purpose does come "full circle". And in speaking of the New Earth, many scholars believe that not only will our physical bodies be somewhat similar to the one's we have now, but we will also have cultural aspects that remain (this is based on passages in scripture like Isaiah 60 or 65). Regarding the resurrection fo the dead, Paul devoted much of what he wrote to defending the physical resurrection of Christ and the physical resurrection of believers. This is because Corinth, in particular here, was heavily influenced by Greek philosophies (such as gnosticisim) which taught that the spirit was incompatible with the physical, and that one should pursue the "spiritual realm", disdaining the bodily/physical aspect of life. Because their view of Creation and the Fall was so distorted (believing that all matter was evil), they did not believe in the Diety of Christ and many other heresies. Thus, Paul took great pains to emphasize Christ's humanity, His physical death, physical resurrection and material body. This also more fully explains the entire chapter of 1 Corinthians 15 mentioned above. Hope this helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seraphimbride Posted May 4, 2006 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 39 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/20/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted May 4, 2006 Hi Dad Ernie. You wrote: These are some of the characteristics of the "glorified body". So no, we will not come "full circle". With Adam it was a physical existence, unglorified. Our new bodies will be in temples created by God that will glow with His Glory. This gives me a different view and is very helpful. It makes perfect sense. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seraphimbride Posted May 4, 2006 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 39 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/20/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted May 4, 2006 Hi Tess. Your message helps alot. I know that I need to look to god for answers, but sometimes I feel he may send me guidance, through others. And you have given me some guidance and little clearer understanding. Much appreciation. P.S. I wasnt joking about the *bump* thing. What does that mean???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted May 4, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted May 4, 2006 Please pre-forgive my ignorance. I'm rather new to studying the Bible. Actually, I'm not even at a point of study. I'm just trying to get more familiar with it and grasp some meaning from it. I have a view that formed in my mind and i'm not sure where it came from. Would it be correct in some sense to say that the events that take place in Revelations will bring man back to God's original intention for man, (before the fall) and that it is what the entire bible leads up to; that man will come full-circle and will once again be sin-free, when Jesus establishes his rule of heaven on earth. The ones who are chosen as his bridegrooms will inherit what Adam had before the fall, i.e. God's original intent---for man to live in love for his neighbor, so that there would be no sin--all man living only to give glory to HIS Creator? (as of course, it should be, today) NOTE: In no way am I saying that I know whaT God's original intent for creating man was, and for the record, neither do you. Man can only speculate and wander unless God chooses to reveal himself to someone. We can all learn form the Bible and it can be used as an excellent example as how to lead our lives-but no one really knows what God intends--any way, I've strayed. Full-cirle? It's no coincidence, I'm sure, that a circle represents eternity!! hello seraphimbride for a new student of the word you are already sharp in your views which i mean this in a positive way. I believe you are correct in what you see as everything will be full circle with the exception of a few changes for example the heavens and the earth that are now at present from the beginning will be destroy and there will be a new heaven and a new earth. also the holy city that we shall live in will come down out of heaven and will be tabernacled among us according to revelation chapter 21. then there is the fact that satan and his demonic host will not be present in our new home in glory as we partake from the tree of life their will never be a serpent to come into our garden and decieve mankind ever again and sin shall not be in our eternal home. Also Dad Ernie gave good comments in which to add unto your own thoughts. keep studying you are doing very well. blessings in christ Openly Curious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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