apothanein kerdos Posted June 30, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted June 30, 2006 Moving back to the theory of the rapture: Either way, we will never come to a conclusive answer on if the rapture will occur or not. Even after we explore everything in the Greek (or Hebrew in the case of Revelation), the historical context, the teachings of the early church, basically...even after we have used all proper study methods there is still not definate answer. The reason is it deals with God's timing which means this is a characteristic of God. Though we can have knowledge of God and understand certain aspects of His nature (because we are in His image) we cannot have a comprehensive knowledge of God (because we are not God). Thus, things such as timing, how He will deal with a time we literally know nothing about, are outside our scope of reason and understanding. Personally, based upon how God deals with His chosen throughout the Bible, I have become post-tribulation...at the same time I do not believe for one second that this is infallible or even correct. I believe the evidence points in that direction but at the same time I realize an equal ammount of evidence points in the other direction. The point in all of this is that it's useless to get heated over such a simple discussion. No one knows, it is impossible to know. The pharisees, who were far more educated than we are, were incorrect about the 1st return of Christ. Why in the world do we think we will be correct about the 2nd? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rania Posted June 30, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 269 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/13/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted June 30, 2006 Personally, based upon how God deals with His chosen throughout the Bible, I have become post-tribulation... LOL!!! That's the exact same reason that I am pre-trib! Biblically, God has always saved his people from his wrath. (Noah, Lot .......) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted June 30, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted June 30, 2006 Personally, based upon how God deals with His chosen throughout the Bible, I have become post-tribulation... LOL!!! That's the exact same reason that I am pre-trib! Biblically, God has always saved his people from his wrath. (Noah, Lot .......) But they were still here on earth and close enough to realize what was occuring. It is still a good argument, it simply depends on how you view it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jckduboise Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 The sad thing about this is, there are a lot of people who will be left behind when the trumpet sounds who think they will escape. This will happen because the itching ear teachers have told them they will go in the rapture regardless how they are living when Jesus returns, and that is not true. I had one Pastor tell me if a Christian is in the act of committing adultery when Jesus returns, they will go in the rapture. The Bible says it is only those watching for his coming that will go, and anyone who would sin in such a manner is obviously not looking for Jesus, at least at that moment. Maybe from that stand point, we should be teaching people to be prepared for the tribulation period. The biggest mistake I find most people make on this issue is again not reading and studying scripture. In the O.T. many continued to give sin offerings because they continuosly sinned even after having asked God for forgiveness and in many occasions they are getting atonement for their sins again and again and again. God put an end to the constant sin offerings by offering up the ultimate Lamb. If you honestly believe (any of you) that you are infallable or incapable of sin then you really need to seek professional help. If God intends on punishing every Christian who has sinned after accepting Jesus Christ as their saviour then Heaven is going to be a real lonely place to hang out in. Do any of you honestly believe you haven't sin, you probably did today as a matter of fact and will sin tomorrow... If it was O.K. for God to forgive on multiple occassions in the Old Testament for some reason now that Christ has come there's no longer any room for forgiveness?. As usual, far too many people are trying to be Judge, Jury and Executioner on Gods behalf. So again the Pastors story about adultery is it it any different for the Christian who lost his patience with a neighbor our his or her child and vented anger towrad them at the same time of Christs return...is it the same scenario? or does the Pastor preach a grading system for sin...is any one sin worse than another?...a sin..is a sin...is a sin. So the Christian who became angered or the Christian who gambles are they any different?... I don't remember finding a grading scale for sin in the Bible anywhere. In the case of being around for the Tribulation...when you start seeing Jews preaching the Gospel of Christ all over the world then you have something to worry about because by that you will know you weren't Raptured, but yet, you still get another chance to repent. My guess is even though we're all guilty of sin we won't see it because we have accepted Christ, none of us are incapable of living without sin...none of us. Although my favorite teacher who instructs me about Christ is Jewish....so maybe we all missed the boat already. CJ To seek forgiveness is to repent of that act and to sin no more in it. If I commit any act of sin even though I have been baptized and am most definitely Christian I still have to seek forgiveness and repentance. Do I continue asking forgiveness for that which has already been forgiven? No. But I am not going to sin and assume that all sins committed after my baptizm are covered as well... We must be dilligent and faithful until the moment He comes..be there rapture or not. Dangerous ground walking to assume that current sins are covered after baptizm without seeking forgiveness. Pretty complacent and lazy if you ask me. We are to be watching, ready and have our lamps filled with oil.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rania Posted June 30, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 269 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/13/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted June 30, 2006 But they were still here on earth and close enough to realize what was occuring. Touche! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgolvach Posted July 8, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 110 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,254 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted July 8, 2006 I don't really know if I believe in a Rapture. I do believe in Jesus. So if theres gonna be one, I say "Bring it on because things are getting kinda rough down here". Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jckduboise Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 Jesus was resurrected and ascended back into heaven where He came from..He was not raptured..from my understanding rapture is to be taken up without death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David H. Posted November 6, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 201 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/09/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted November 6, 2006 (edited) (thank you dear LADY for your posts) Windance prophesies (on other threads here) with great wrath and impending judgment against women teaching or having authority in the church. He does so as God, himself, speaking. He proclaims that judgment is coming upon the whole church and the time for repentance is over, though he first wrote those words on his own site four years ago. Yet, he thanks Jackie for her posts! The church is not defined by walls. It is the followers of Christ, wherever they gather, even here on the internet. So, why does Windance at once claim that God is coming to judge the church because women are teaching in it and then praise this woman for her many posts that teach Christian men on this forum? Is God only concerned that women teach inside of walls under a steeple? Does Windance switch to praising women who teach and speak out (also spoken against by Paul) only because Jackie praises everything he says? This is not a comment about whether or not women should teach men. It is about Windance. Neither is it a comment about Jackie, by the way. It's only about Windance. If he were true to his message, it seems to me he would have told Jackie not to teach here, but to keep silent. Does God care whether teaching happens here versus inside walls at a formal meeting? Does a true prophet command one thing and then thank people for doing the opposite??? Teaching Christians via posting on a web site is only different than speaking in that it carries more weight (not less) than the spoken word because it hangs around longer. The written word does not evaporate into thin air as soon as it is expressed. Teaching is teaching wherever you find it. The Church is wherever two or more are gathered in Christ's name. So, the church is here. But where is Windance? He has been banned. Perhaps wisely. Edited November 7, 2006 by David Haggith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie d Posted November 7, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 25 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,081 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/29/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/08/1967 Share Posted November 7, 2006 wow I can't believe this thread made it back here!..hi David Haggith..this is jckduboise aka jackie d..and the same that windance was speaking to..I won't comment on what you said David, simply because windance and I have become very good friends and since he is no longer here to defend himself, I cannot speak on his behalf or about him...if he were here I would boldly comment on all of it..but I can say that we became friends while he was a member here..and I do miss his presence, I had fun watching him get peoples blood pumping..Blessings I do have to say that reading through some of my posts here it is amazing to me how much of my beliefs in the whole "rapture" theory has changed..many that post on these threads know my views today so I won't go into it much but I will say that I don't believe there will be a pre-trib rapture...and I am skeptical about mid-trib..unless of course somewhere in the middle of all the stuff that will happen the Lord decides to shorten our days and come a bit earlier than scheduled...smiles Have a God blessed day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David H. Posted November 7, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 201 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/09/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted November 7, 2006 wow I can't believe this thread made it back here!..hi David Haggith..this is jckduboise aka jackie d..and the same that windance was speaking to..I won't comment on what you said David, simply because windance and I have become very good friends and since he is no longer here to defend himself, I cannot speak on his behalf or about him...if he were here I would boldly comment on all of it..but I can say that we became friends while he was a member here..and I do miss his presence, I had fun watching him get peoples blood pumping..Blessings I do have to say that reading through some of my posts here it is amazing to me how much of my beliefs in the whole "rapture" theory has changed..many that post on these threads know my views today so I won't go into it much but I will say that I don't believe there will be a pre-trib rapture...and I am skeptical about mid-trib..unless of course somewhere in the middle of all the stuff that will happen the Lord decides to shorten our days and come a bit earlier than scheduled...smiles Have a God blessed day Hi, Jackie. I see you are from Washington state, too. You mention that you have become very good friends with Windance, a.k.a Ben, and I could see that you had because you defend him (vehemently at times) against anyone who questions whether or not he is a true prophet. But we are supposed to question whether every prophet is true and test every prophet. At least, that is my understanding of scripture. I figured you have to be a pretty close friend to become so irrate at people who are simply asking why they should believe he is a true prophet. Given that they've never met the guy, except out of the blue on these boards, it seems a fair question to ask and even to ask with great scrutiny. I'm glad that your beliefs in the rapture theory have changed. I think I agree with Ben on most of what he says when it comes to understanding scripture. I've taught for some time that the pre-tribulation rapture theory is a fantasy for those who want to see the world judged but don't want to be here when things go bad. What I have a hard time with is the fact that Ben claims to be God speaking and yet there is no confirmation of his words anywhere that I can find -- other than your testimony about him and his about himself. Now, the fact that I can't find it doesn't mean it doesn't exist; but I grow increasingly troubled that the harder I look and the less I find of it. There must be some strong reason the worthy boards have banned him, since they are very open to a lot of people giving a lot of prophecies, whether they're confirmed or not. Since you are good friends with him, do you know why he was banned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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