EricH Posted January 3, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted January 3, 2007 That's the first I've heard that we are whisked away to heaven for 1000 yrs! No...we live here for the Millennial Reign of Christ. I don't know where you are going off, but there is nothing in scripture that indicates that...there are other scenarios, but I have never heard of your picture. I don't understand why you can't see that. Why else would the righteous be caught up to meet Jesus in the sky then? Certainly not to just come back down here. they go off to the mansions that He is preparing for them. I've given much scripture that indicates just that...you just choose to close your eyes to it. I no longer wish to debate this with you because you just dodge the scriptures that I show you, and do not address the plain teachings of the bible which I have shared with you. I have put them on here much before, but you just ignore the scriptures that contradict what you believe. I can do nothing for you if you wish to deny the truth. It is the Holy Spirits job now. Blessings, Tom OK. lets keep this on the texts and not get personal please. The accusations you are making can cut both ways. Please limiit your arguments to what the text says. If it does not convince people, then leave it to God to do the convincing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomPJr Posted January 3, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 387 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/30/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/11/1977 Share Posted January 3, 2007 That's the first I've heard that we are whisked away to heaven for 1000 yrs! No...we live here for the Millennial Reign of Christ. I don't know where you are going off, but there is nothing in scripture that indicates that...there are other scenarios, but I have never heard of your picture. I don't understand why you can't see that. Why else would the righteous be caught up to meet Jesus in the sky then? Certainly not to just come back down here. they go off to the mansions that He is preparing for them. I've given much scripture that indicates just that...you just choose to close your eyes to it. I no longer wish to debate this with you because you just dodge the scriptures that I show you, and do not address the plain teachings of the bible which I have shared with you. I have put them on here much before, but you just ignore the scriptures that contradict what you believe. I can do nothing for you if you wish to deny the truth. It is the Holy Spirits job now. Blessings, Tom OK. lets keep this on the texts and not get personal please. The accusations you are making can cut both ways. Please limiit your arguments to what the text says. If it does not convince people, then leave it to God to do the convincing I agree 100% I just stated my beliefs, in a similar manner she did. and as I also stated "It is the Holy Spirits job now" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted January 3, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted January 3, 2007 There is NO clear cut scripture that tells it all! It is the Holy Spirit's job to lead us, but there are definite camps. No need to be defensive. I just have never heard that one before. Many believe that the Church is caught up in order to have the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. Then we come with Jesus as His army in white as He makes His return for the ultimate battle. All eyes which have remained will see Him (and us) and know that Jesus is the Christ, and mourn. Many will rejoice, having found salvation through the anointed ministry of the 144,000 witnesses. This view is also scriptural. So, you see, legitimate interpretations are different, but it doesn't affect anyone's salvation to differ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomPJr Posted January 3, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 387 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/30/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/11/1977 Share Posted January 3, 2007 There is NO clear cut scripture that tells it all! It is the Holy Spirit's job to lead us, but there are definite camps. No need to be defensive. I just have never heard that one before. Many believe that the Church is caught up in order to have the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. Then we come with Jesus as His army in white as He makes His return for the ultimate battle. All eyes which have remained will see Him (and us) and know that Jesus is the Christ, and mourn. Many will rejoice, having found salvation through the anointed ministry of the 144,000 witnesses. This view is also scriptural. So, you see, legitimate interpretations are different, but it doesn't affect anyone's salvation to differ. I respect your view, and actually see how one can conclude what you believe. However, we both claim that our views are scriptural.... given that, I say that we can agree to disagree.... at least we agree on salvation through Jesus! peace, and love, Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted January 3, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted January 3, 2007 That's for sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Durnan Posted January 7, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 121 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,782 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 49 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/14/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 7, 2007 As I understand it, the multitude saved during the Tribulation - "a multitude no man could number," will not form a part of the raptured (Greek, harpazo, snatched-away-suddenly-ones), but now having accepted the Messiah will dwell on the new earth. They will not enjoy the Marriage Supper of the Lamb, which I believe will have occured earlier in heaven itself. http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomPJr Posted January 10, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 387 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/30/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/11/1977 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Yes! They are the wicked since the beginning of time who have died before Jesus comes, and the wicked who are destroyed by the brightness of his coming. Basically, all the wicked, or unrighteous. there are Four groups of people when Jesus comes... 1) the alive in Christ 2) the dead in Christ 3) the alive wicked 4) the dead wicked the dead in christ are raised and they along with the living in Christ put on immortality, and go to heaven for the 1000 years. the dead wicked remain dead, and the living wicked are destroyed by the brightness of his coming. The "rest of the dead" are the wicked, who live not untill the thousand years are finished. Satan is bound in chains of circumstance here on this destroyed, desolate earth, with all the fallen angels to ponder what they've done, for a thousand years. then when the righteous return with Christ and the New City after the millenium, the wicked are resurected and Satan is loosed, because he has people to manipulate again(the wicked). peace brother, Tom Hi Tom, My issue with this position is based on a few things when looking at these verses. Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the numbe of whom is as the sand of the sea. Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. In verse 6, we see the Saints reigning with God during the Millenial Kingdom, in verse 8 we see Nations still existing during the Millenial Reign and also that these Nations are upon the earth, which tells us that these will be living human beings that will maintain some form of self government similar to how we govern ourselves today. There are many many people who live today that are not wicked people who are just unbelievers, God specifically says that He destroys the "wicked" with the brightness of His coming, there is no scriptural support to define an unbeliever as part of the wicked because we are all sinners both believers and unbelievers alike. The wicked are an entirely different category of people, some like to argue that they would be getting a "second chance" but that is just unscriptural. However, the people of the Millenial Reign will have missed out on Salvation through faith by God's grace. You think people have a hard time walking a straight line now under God's grace? I wouldn't even want to imagine what it would be like to live in the flesh trying to achieve salvation without the grace of God. Peace CJ Hi C.J. (is it alright if I call you C.J.?) You are making quite an assumption that the term "nation" here means that they are some sort of self government during the millenium... G1484 (taken from "nation" in the passage you quoted) ἔθνος ethnos eth'-nos Probably from G1486; a race (as of the same habit), that is, a tribe; specifically a foreign (non-Jewish) one (usually by implication pagan): - Gentile, heathen, nation, people. Yes...God destroys the wicked with the brightness of his coming. That group is made up of everyone who is left after the rapture. I believe that the raptured people will watch the rest be destroyed from the sky. Remember that the bible says that Jesus comes back after all have had a chance to accept him. Not all the people will necessarily be wicked in nature, but they will refuse to believe or accept Jesus. They had their chance before he comes back. Then they will be destroyed, and the world will be left desolate just as the bible says...it will be a waste land....a huge graveyard. After the millenial reign in heaven God brings the Holy City along with the saints, to finally act out his judgement on the wicked. During the 1000 years the saints were reviewing the books to see and understand how the whole thing played out and why certain people aren't there, and so they will know for sure that Gods laws aren't just arbitrary. After the wicked are resurected, they face final judgement in which they will be burnt up in the lake of fire here on earth. The really bad people will burn longer than not-so-bad people but they will all eventually burn up, and God will then recreate this Earth and it will no longer, or ever be, a waste land. When it talks about the earth being desolate, it has to be refering to the millenium, because after the millenium it is re-inhabited. peace, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyAngeL Posted January 10, 2007 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 23 Topic Count: 155 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,464 Content Per Day: 1.02 Reputation: 8,810 Days Won: 57 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/12/1952 Share Posted January 10, 2007 The Rapture of the Church will occur when Christ returns for those that are His: 1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. The word in verse 17 that is translated "caught up" is harp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomPJr Posted January 11, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 387 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/30/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/11/1977 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Hi C.J. (is it alright if I call you C.J.?) You are making quite an assumption that the term "nation" here means that they are some sort of self government during the millenium... G1484 (taken from "nation" in the passage you quoted) ἔθνος ethnos eth'-nos Probably from G1486; a race (as of the same habit), that is, a tribe; specifically a foreign (non-Jewish) one (usually by implication pagan): - Gentile, heathen, nation, people. Yes...God destroys the wicked with the brightness of his coming. That group is made up of everyone who is left after the rapture. I believe that the raptured people will watch the rest be destroyed from the sky. Remember that the bible says that Jesus comes back after all have had a chance to accept him. Not all the people will necessarily be wicked in nature, but they will refuse to believe or accept Jesus. They had their chance before he comes back. Then they will be destroyed, and the world will be left desolate just as the bible says...it will be a waste land....a huge graveyard. After the millenial reign in heaven God brings the Holy City along with the saints, to finally act out his judgement on the wicked. During the 1000 years the saints were reviewing the books to see and understand how the whole thing played out and why certain people aren't there, and so they will know for sure that Gods laws aren't just arbitrary. After the wicked are resurected, they face final judgement in which they will be burnt up in the lake of fire here on earth. The really bad people will burn longer than not-so-bad people but they will all eventually burn up, and God will then recreate this Earth and it will no longer, or ever be, a waste land. When it talks about the earth being desolate, it has to be refering to the millenium, because after the millenium it is re-inhabited. peace, In any case it is a structure of higherarchy. I don't believe that everyone who is not raptured are destroyed because Prophecy clearly states that their will be a "Faithful Remnant" of Israel who will survive the tribulation. Also at the end of the battle of Armageddon when God seperates the sheep from the goats which is the judgment of the gentiles, gentiles who also survive the tribulation. Yes it's ok to call me CJ you are definately correct about the remnant. I believe that the remnant is being called out now... and some of the tribulation has happened already, but most people don't recognize it. That is why it is so critical. Satan wants us to miss it and not recognize it, and think that it is a future event so it will be too late for us when it happens. The final trib will happen before Jesus returns to rapture the saints. The remnant who exist in part today are called to spread the three angels message from Revelation to the world before Jesus returns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whirlwind Posted November 4, 2007 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 113 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/06/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/22/1946 Share Posted November 4, 2007 Can anyone tell me the scriptures that support the notion of Rapture? There are people I have spoken to who say they don't believe in it. I for one do, but have never read the word in the bible. Please respond with Scripture that is the only way I will know for sure that it is a reality. there is no question that there will be a ''rapture'' or catching away of the saints the problem is that people have distorted the truth to make other hope when they can not confirm there word ezekiel 13:6 there will be a rapture but not b4 the tribulation it will be at the post trib 2nd coming matt 24:29-31,mark 13:24-27 luke 17:26-30, 1st cor 15:20-23,1st cor 15:51-53 1st thess 3:13, 1st thess 4:15-17,2nd thess 1:6-10 2nd thess 2:1-3 and rev 20:4-6 I find I very much agree with Onwingsaseagles. Scripture tells us that His 2nd Advent is when all of this happens.....if someone wishes to call it a rapture then that is fine but we must know that it does not happen until AFTER the tribulation of Satan. Satan's tribulation is what Christ refers to as: Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be The tribulation of that time is deception, not physical torture. Satan comes to earth pretending to be Christ and he must maintain that facade to trick Christians....and Christians are those he is coming after. Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. He comes to make a spiritual war with Christians....we are the ones that have the testimony of Jesus Christ! We must know who he is that is masquerading as Christ and wait for the True Saviour. Then, we will be the spiritual virgins He comes for and not have fallen into idolatry by worshipping Satan, even if it is unknowingly. When someone considers rapture please read the following scripture: Ezekiel 13:20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord God; 'Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly. How does He do that? How does He "tear them from your arms?" By writing a letter to us that explains what He expects of us in the end of days.....and that is not to "fly away." ........Whirlwind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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