Electric Angel Posted May 28, 2006 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 45 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/26/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted May 28, 2006 While it's important to be civil to gay people, we must never lose sight of the fact that the homosexual lifestyle will land a person in hell. It is a grievous sin, one for which God annihilated two cities in the Old Testament. (He never annihilated a city for working on the sabbath.) There's a difference between being civil to someone and approving of the way they live their lives. Had the bishop simply been advocating a more civil attitude, I doubt he'd have been disciplined. But condoning a lifestyle that the Bible stamps as sinful is definitely worthy of anaethema. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSLewis Posted May 28, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 828 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 20 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/28/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/28/1980 Share Posted May 28, 2006 I don't think God annihilated Sodom and Gomorrah for having lifelong monogamous homosexual relationships but for committing rape and incest along with child sacrifices to pagan gods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electric Angel Posted May 28, 2006 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 45 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/26/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted May 28, 2006 I don't think God annihilated Sodom and Gomorrah for having lifelong monogamous homosexual relationships but for committing rape and incest along with child sacrifices to pagan gods. Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Jude 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Dannyboy Posted May 28, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 156 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,454 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/22/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/02/1969 Share Posted May 28, 2006 2 Peter 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. It was not only their homosexual behavior that cause Sodom and Gomorrha to be condemned, but it was a major part of it. Genesis 19;4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, surrounded the house, both young and old, all the people from every quarter. 5 They called to Lot, and said to him, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSLewis Posted May 28, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 828 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 20 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/28/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/28/1980 Share Posted May 28, 2006 While I do agree that priests should not be homosexuals and I applaud the Catholic church for standing on this issue, it is not as clear cut or easy as it seems. Liberal bishops have increasingly steered away from the inerrancy of the scriptures which is a bigger problem and the source of the drift in the church. The problems started I think in the 60's when many of our bishops went to seminary. I came from an Assembly of God church and switched to a creedal church partially for the liturgy and freedom in the liturgy but also because we have a great ministry at our parish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ahauber Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 While I do agree that priests should not be homosexuals and I applaud the Catholic church for standing on this issue, it is not as clear cut or easy as it seems. Liberal bishops have increasingly steered away from the inerrancy of the scriptures which is a bigger problem and the source of the drift in the church. The problems started I think in the 60's when many of our bishops went to seminary. I came from an Assembly of God church and switched to a creedal church partially for the liturgy and freedom in the liturgy but also because we have a great ministry at our parish. CSL, I've been following your posts of the past few days and have a few comments I would like to make. First, the impression I get from you is that you are a young man, college age perhaps, and that you are seeking spiritual truth in everything around you. In this you do well. Always, ask questions and wait expectantly for answers. You say that you came from the Assemblies of God to the Episcopal Church (I assume). My journey has been similar. Perhaps you came to the Anglican way seeking a more sincere expresion, or a more erudite explination to life and eturnity. What I found in liturgical worship was a compliment to the praise experience. Let's face it, the Episcopal Church does not do praise very well. But, just as the penticostal movements excelled in praise that satisfied our spiritual needs for the moment, so does the Anglical way excel in richness and depth in the annual rhythm of liturgical worship. I found richness and satisfaction here that I could not find anywhere else. You say that you are from an orthodox/conservative parish. I wonder if you know how fortunate you are. Our parish is orthodox, but so small that it will close soon, and the only parishes within 50 miles of here are progressive and are leaving the ancient traditions as fast as they can. I want to tell you here that you will make a mistake if you equate orthodox with conservative. While the orthodox are mainly conservative thinking people, they are not the same. (When I say conservative thinking, I mean a person who is comfortable with order and rules and proceedure. These are people who can keep an organization going. A liberal minded person is someone who is not intimidated by disorder, who is comfortable thinking 'outside the box.' They are people who are more in tune with the needs and necessities of individuals then with the workings and necessities of an organization. Both are needed and valuable.) In my little orthodox parish I have 2 liberally thinking people who I listen to very carefully. Even though, at times they are irritating to me, they see things in ways that I do not see. They are senitive to needs that I would miss. I am laboring this point a little for you because I think that you are a liberal thinker (U.T. Holmes called it 'left handed thinking.') and I don't want you to be discouraged in the conservative inviroment that you find yourself. While conservatives may be frustratingly dull to you, you are an asset to them, giving them greater and more sensitive vision while they can give you more stability and sound (ordered) doctrine. I find your basic opinions good, that marriage should be between one man and one woman, and that homosexuals should not be in the ministry. This, I believe, shows the good influence of that orthodox enviroment. I too applaud the stand the Catholic Church has taken on these issues. I wish the whole House of Bishops were required to read the 'John Jay report', but I never hear it mentioned. However, when you try to extend your thinking beyond your own experience, you begin to get into trouble. In one place you say that you believe that gay men are born that way (unsupportable through science and disproved by the experiences of many who have healed and delivered from same sex attraction) and in another post you say that sodomy is a choise. Over all, I think you are still searching out these truths and show some confussion from the effects of relitivism which is not an influence of your church life but, probably, of your accidemic enviroment. So, be good, do good works and we will pray for you, that you will continue in the good place that God the Holy Spirit has placed you, and for you chemistry prof, that he find salvation and deliverence in Jesus Christ our Lord. The Lord be with you, Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSLewis Posted May 30, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 828 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 20 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/28/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/28/1980 Share Posted May 30, 2006 Thank you for your kind words, Andy and I will pray for your parish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Dole Posted May 30, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 139 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/28/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted May 30, 2006 Well by deffinition an orthodox church (a church that sticks to tradition) is conservative (sticking to traditions.) I think that one day (hopefully in the near future) there will be scientific evidence that homosexuality is not a choice. Perhaps even a day when we can read someone's mind and tell them if they're a homosexual or not, then all those people who were "cured" of their lifestyle will be seen as what they are, homosexuals living a lie to fit in. I think the church realizes this and wants to start making some changes because if they don't, whenever this day comes, they'll have to answer why god would make people that would only lead a happy life through sin (imagine never being able to have a partner you can love just because it's a sin?) Plus, Sodom and Gomorrha weren't destroyed because of homosexuality. Being homosexual isn't a sin if you never act upon the homosexuality. If a man is naturally attracted to men but never lusts after another man, and never has a sexual relation with another man, he is not sinning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tah Posted May 30, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 105 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,131 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 126 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/12/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted May 30, 2006 Rom 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. Rom 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. Rom 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. flesh nature is not above any sinful desires or actions... We who are Christs are born again not of the flesh but of the Spirit.... In Him there is no sinful desires or sinful behaviours... So because we are born again we put away the sinful desires and give them no more thought... and walk in the Spirit... If I had battled the lust for another of the same gender then I certainly would not proclaim "I am a Homosexual"....any more that I would claim I am a liar or a murder...or an adulterer...or a harlot... My proclamation is "I am a new creation in Christ Jesus and a Son of God" ..... Old things are passed away and I am become new... Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Dannyboy Posted May 30, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 156 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,454 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/22/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/02/1969 Share Posted May 30, 2006 Throughout the animal kingdom there is exhibition of homosexual behavior If a man is naturally attracted to men but never lusts after another man, and never has a sexual relation with another man, he is not sinning. I don't understand why some people feel compelled to justify the sinfull behavior of others. Animals do it so its ok? Since a man does not admit to "lusting" after other men then it must not be a sin? I don't understand the logic. If we were to use the logic that, since some animals exhibit homosexual tendencies, then it would also be ok to follow Satan since "some" angels follow him too. Because we witness similar behavior elsewhere does not make it any less sinful. Using similar logic we could justify away the sinfulness of pornography by saying that, since its only pictures and not real people then it ,therefore, must not be a sin. Many in the church are "adapting" to the ever increasing sin in this world. In the name of "love" they preach tolerance of sin instead of rebuking and correcting it. As if our deviation from scripture is not bad enough there are many working to change the scriptures to "fit the times". We must trust the scriptures and the Holy Spirit to guide us and stop bending to pressure from those in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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