Believing your heart when your mind knows better

[Guest feraline]

How can you believe in something when your mind knows better?

I have read a lot on a lot of different religions. I have read a great deal on bible contradictions and had it pointed out to me that various events detailed in the bible cannot be true (such as a worldwide flood, or the earth being created only several thousand years ago verses millions of years, etc). I have learned about different religions and seen things work that are not in accordance with the bible (like magic, wicca). My mind knows that Christianity cannot be true. However....

When I am driving late at night I sometimes talk aloud to 'God' and say what is on my mind. I worry sometimes about Hell and death. I pray to God and try to explain to him my issues and questions. Something, somewhere in the back of my heart thinks there is a possibility of God. When I've prayed for salvation (many times, trust me) I never feel any different. I am never sure that there is anything beyond what I see, but nonetheless occasionally talk to God and wonder.

My question is...how is possible to have faith when i have never seen a God, when I've seen errors in the Bible and no proof of anything? Can your heart believe when your mind can't???

[artsylady]

Feraline:

There are many scientists (100's of thousands) around the world who believe in the creation theory and say that the theory of evolution just couldn't have happened. These scientists are called creationists and you might want to take a look at their evidence. A good site to begin with is answersingenesis.org

There are also scientists who aren't Creationists, who don't believe in God, who also say that evolution could not have happened. The odds are too incredible to be believable, even if you do add dates that are unfathonable, like billions and billions. Frogs just don't turn into princes in real life, no matter how much time you have.

Look around you and try to imagine that everything around you began as an accident, (mutation) and through billions of series of very lucky accidents created the diversity and beauty you see. Through sheer accident, the peacock happened upon those intricate and beautiful feathers? The mathematical precision of the constellations and movement of the planets - result of an accidental collision? The design of the eye, or a cell or the complex information found within a single dna molecule - all lucky accidents? The interractions between plants and animals which allow life to thrive on this planet - just lucky random accidents? The interractions between the tides and the moon - a daily system of disposing of all dead matter in the oceans -accidents?

These are just a few examples of the complexity and design within our world. The examples number in the millions and billions. Just walk outside and there's a complex innovative system probably under your feet - the ants, the bees, the trees etc. It's staggering how precise and complex every aspect of our earth is.

Accidents cause chaos - not design and order. And things left alone do not become bigger, stronger and increasingly complex and more intelligent. Things left alone decay and break down.

Do you really believe these intelligent complex systems all around you and even within your own body are all caused by many many series of very lucky accidents? I can't. I don't have that much faith.

There is so much logical EVIDENCE for creation and for the Genesis account I don't know where to begin, but I do suggest you take a look at it yourself.

[artsylady]

You'll also find that there is actually proof (or many proofs) for a worldwide flood and that our planets people DID begin about 7 thousand years ago from one woman (recently discovered mitrochondrial dna) as stated in the Genesis account. I think you'll find the evidence fascinating.

[tsth]

Matthew 9

14 And when He came to the disciples, He saw a great multitude around them, and scribes disputing with them. 15 Immediately, when they saw Him, all the people were greatly amazed, and running to Him, greeted Him. 16 And He asked the scribes, "What are you discussing with them?" 17 Then one of the crowd answered and said, "Teacher, I brought You my son, who has a mute spirit. 18 And wherever it seizes him, it throws him down; he foams at the mouth, gnashes his teeth, and becomes rigid. So I spoke to Your disciples, that they should cast it out, but they could not." 19 He answered him and said, "O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I bear with you? Bring him to Me." 20 Then they brought him to Him. And when he saw Him, immediately the spirit convulsed him, and he fell on the ground and wallowed, foaming at the mouth. 21 So He asked his father, "How long has this been happening to him?" And he said, "From childhood. 22 And often he has thrown him both into the fire and into the water to destroy him. But if You can do anything, have compassion on us and help us." 23 Jesus said to him, "If you can believe, all things are possible to him who believes." 24 Immediately the father of the child cried out and said with tears, "Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!" 25 When Jesus saw that the people came running together, He rebuked the unclean spirit, saying to it, "Deaf and dumb spirit, I command you, come out of him and enter him no more!" 26 Then the spirit cried out, convulsed him greatly, and came out of him. And he became as one dead, so that many said, "He is dead." 27 But Jesus took him by the hand and lifted him up, and he arose. 28 And when He had come into the house, His disciples asked Him privately, "Why could we not cast it out?" 29 So He said to them, "This kind can come out by nothing but prayer and fasting."

Dear feraline, imagine if you had been alive in the days when Jesus walked the earth. Would you have believed then? Or would you not? I suspect you would have been much like that father mentioned above, wondering about belief in the Lord. But just as Jesus was loving and compassionate toward that father who confessed he was unsure, He is just as loving and merciful toward you today. Jesus is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. So ask Him to help you believe, just as that father did. He will hear a sincere heart who is searching for Him.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Guest Mudfly]

You have found out........that Faith and salvation is a decision of the heart, and not of the mind.

God bless,

Mudfly

"I the Lord do not change." -Malachi 3:6

[Guest Calamity]

How can you believe in something when your mind knows better?

I have read a lot on a lot of different religions. I have read a great deal on bible contradictions and had it pointed out to me that various events detailed in the bible cannot be true (such as a worldwide flood, or the earth being created only several thousand years ago verses millions of years, etc). I have learned about different religions and seen things work that are not in accordance with the bible (like magic, wicca). My mind knows that Christianity cannot be true. However....

When I am driving late at night I sometimes talk aloud to 'God' and say what is on my mind. I worry sometimes about Hell and death. I pray to God and try to explain to him my issues and questions. Something, somewhere in the back of my heart thinks there is a possibility of God. When I've prayed for salvation (many times, trust me) I never feel any different. I am never sure that there is anything beyond what I see, but nonetheless occasionally talk to God and wonder.

My question is...how is possible to have faith when i have never seen a God, when I've seen errors in the Bible and no proof of anything? Can your heart believe when your mind can't???

feraline, nobody understands all of the Bible, or everything about God. We never will, as long as we're in this earthly body. The mind is very important in knowing about God, and in understanding, but you can believe without knowing all there is to know. That's one thing about the Gospel, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand it - but it does take faith.

Rom.10

[8] But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

But, like I said, the 'mind' is very important also.

Mark.12

[30] And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

Phil.4

[7] And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

And, if you look at all the facts, historical proof and everything involved in all that is written in the Bible, it is not beyond reason to grasp that it is sound and not just a fairy tale.

Isa.1

[18] Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

And there are other scriptures pertaining to reasoning with our minds:

Acts.17

[2] And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

Acts.18

[4] And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

[19] And he came to Ephesus, and left them there: but he himself entered into the synagogue, and reasoned with the Jews.

Acts.24

2Tim.1

[7] For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

There are many good websites that deal with what some people claim are contradictions in the Bible, about historical proofs of things recorded in the Bible, and almost every question you could imagine.

Here are a couple, and others have given you some also.

http://www.inplainsite.org/html/the_resurrection.html

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Village...7544/Salvation/

[artsylady]

While faith is in the heart, and the belief in Christianity requires faith, the belief should not go against what is logical either.

The truth is, evolution is illogical.

"Love the lord your God with all your heart, all your soul and all of your MIND."

Check out all of the references to wisdom in the Bible. Wisdom is something to be sought. Ask God for wisdom. Faith and wisdom go hand in hand.

While there are some things that I have questions about or don't understand, overwhelmingly there is still much that can be understood and learned about God and creation and imo, SHOULD be learned.

[nebula]

I'm going to come from a different angle, being a student of science. A wise scientist takes into account that every interpretation of the evidence has the potential for being proven wrong by new evidence down the road. What we beleive in science is based on finding the best-fit interpretion we can imagine for the evidence that is presented. This is why science textbooks are outdated by the time they go from being written to being published. New data has changed some of the contents. An example would be the discovery that supergiant blackholes form the center of galaxies; this was just discovered about 3? years ago. Textbooks written before this time frame are missing this facinating piece of info.

Another thing I learned is that in the classroom, you rarely hear about the debates going on. Some teachers may include that a conventional theory is being challlenged, but the challenge is never investigated in class. So, the non-scientist never knows the degree to which what they learn is "solidified" or not.

This can apply as well to history. If you've ever seen the Discovery Channel of the Learning Channel doing a presentation on a new discovery, you may understand this. Take the "Ice Man" that was found in teh mountains in Italy? It changed our view of people from that time period.

Now, I have seen soem archeologists questioning the time frame that has been placed to match Biblical dates with Egyptian dates. This one Egyptologist found soem writing that would indicate the time-placement is all wrong. His new chronology puts the story of Joseph, the Exodus, and the kingdoms of Saul thorugh Solomon at a much earlier time in history than is conventionally believed. I think he place the Exodus at the 13th dynasty (I believe Ramses II is at least 4 dynasties later), which doesnt' have much info about it from what I have seen in my simple web search on Egyptian history. He also looked around for evidences of these stories amidst the findings from the time periods he placed things in and found a lot of finds that match the events of the Bible! (i.e. evidence in Jerusalem of the palace Solomon built for the Egyptian princess he married).

I have also come to accept that the Bible was written in a different language and from a different cultural mindset. The language of science was not around until the late Rennaissance or so! (Maybe even later.) Plus, our cultures way of thought and understanding life comes out of the Greek culture, which likewise was non-existant in the days of the Old Testament.

I don't deny the innerancy of the Bible; I do, however, believe that the way the people saw the account of creation is different than the way we see it. I could go on, but I know I'll get clobbered, and I don't want that to hijack your thread.

But as far as your searching - not many of us came to know God through the intellectual pursuit of Him. Me, personally, I was taught Him to be true and believed at an early age. As I grew older, God had proved Himself to me that He is real. I don't believe in God because I believe in the Bible. I believe in the Bible because I believe in God, specifically in Jesus Christ.

I can understand your not feeling any different. I never "felt' anything when I prayed the prayer of repentance and acknowledgment of Jesus as Lord of my life either. But I have felt different when I've been in worship of Him. I can say with 100% belief I have felt God's presence, and I know that no other buzz or high could ever compare to it. (No, I've never had a buzz or high, but people who have had the experience say this is so - and there's also the fact that my mind is totally clear when I feel this way.)

I hope this makes some sense to you.

God bless!

[Adstar]

How can you believe in something when your mind knows better? 

When you come to the understanding that the human mind is not perfect then you place your trust in God who is perfect, you seek His will and trust in His love for those who seek Him :il:

Remember yesterday

[Guest feraline]

Thanks to everyone who posted on this so far. I decided the some of the mental obstacles in my way ought to be explored, and I bought "Case for Faith" by Lee Stroble, since it was recommended to me. Also I signed up to take part in a weekly Bible study. I told the leader that I was agnostic and searching and sometimes very obstinate, and he was very understanding and welcoming. Most of the other people in it are newly converted Christians and so we'll be going through all the basics and learning about strengthing faith, forming a relationship with God, etc. I think it's helpful. I also started keeping a prayer journal, since I don't really know how to pray. Anyway....thanks for posts. There are some good ideas and comments in all of them.