Questions Regarding "Prophets"

[Guest jckduboise]

I'm speaking of this Jackie. YOu essentially thumbed up the idea that we need a prophet to lead us, thus ruining your idea that "God teaches you." If you think this is a good idea that sounds wonderful, you need to drop that line.

Jackie can speak for herself (and very well I might add). But I understood her thumbs-up (and agreed with it) to mean that though we all have the announting that abides in us as will lead us to all Truth (1 John 2), God still gave us Apostels, Prophets, Evengelists, Pastors, and Teachers, to equip the Body for the work of the ministry. Just as there are still men andwomen with Apostolic mantles, Evangelical mantles, Pastoral mantels, and Teaching mantles, there are also still those that were given by the HS the Prophetic mantle - for the edification of the Church. God speaks through them (and generally the Prophetic Voice in America is in strong agreement), and we have the choice to listen or not, to believe or not, and to act or not.

Nicely put chuck..you took the words right out of my mouth

[Ovedya]

Elder Hyde inquired the situation of the negro. They have souls, and are subjects of Salvation. Go into Cincinnati or any city, and find an educated negro, and you will see a man who has risen by the powers of his own mind to his exalted state of respectibility. The slaves in Washington are more refined than many in high places, and the black boys will take the shine off many of those they brush and wait on." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith p 269).

I noticed a couple of important parts to this quote: "...Go into Cincinnati or any city, and find an educated negro...The slaves in Washington are more refined than many in high places, and the black boys will take the shine off many of those they brush and wait on." These are clearly racist statements. The crux of Smith's statement is that only educated black men can receive salvation. This statement follows the pattern of Mormon theology regarding generally al persons with brown skin from the inception of the religion until a certain point in time when it was changed due to pressure from the black comunity. Nevertheless, you still do not find too many "persons of color" within the Mormon communities, and it is still very rare to find any black persons holding positions within the Mormon "priesthiood." My experience talking to former Mormons has been that there is still a pervading belief (it is not expressely stated in most places) that black persons are "sons of Cain." In the movie "The Journey" the two brothers who were disobedient to Nephi were turned to savages with brown skin - they with their families. This shows generally how Mormon theology has always viewed non-whites. Here are some more quotes I found regarding Mormon theology about "brown-skinned people":

"You see some classes of the human family that are black are uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, and seemingly without the blessing of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind.. Cain slew his brother.. And the Lord put a mark on him, which is a flat nose and a black skin." -- Brigham Young

""After the flood, we are told that the curse that had been pronounced upon Cain was continued through Ham's wife, as he married a wife of that seed. And why did it pass through the flood? Because it was necessary that the devil should have a representation upon the earth as well as God." -- John Taylor, 3rd "prophet" of the LDS

"Millions of souls have come into this world cursed with a black skin and have been denied the privilege of priesthood and the fullness of the blessings of the gospel. These are the descendants of Cain...they shall have been made to feel their inferiority and have been separated from the rest of mankind from the beginning...We will also hope that blessings may eventually be given our Negro Brethren, for they are our Brethren-children of God-Not withstanding their black covering emblematical of eternal darkness." -- Joesph Fielding Smith, 10th "prophet" of the LDS

"

[tah]

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I don't really care what I gave a thumbs up to..it was an accurate statement..

Every body these days look for the feel good, easy way to do things and that is what my thumbs up was about..mormon theology or not..it was a truthfull statement..So being critical and discerning this statement and the meaning of my aproval were accurate on my part. And not on yours..

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I could not let this pass without saying something...

That was a scary statement to hear ...

I do not care .......mormon theology or not....??

I am in no way wanting to enter the dual between you and AK..

I just felt that the comment was scary...

and I wonder if you really mean that...

I do not think we need a "certified prophet" to lead the Church ...

That is scary too...

We do have legit prophets and they do a good job among us...

but I have to agree there are a lot of folks out there telling us to "wear green on Saturday" that are not Gods spokesperson...

Discerning between them..?

for Someone who has grown in the spirit and is not a child anymore then they should have a good knowledge of Scripture and with that would come an ability to discern in his heart who is speaking truth to him or not..

I do think someone very young in the Lord should seek out someone they trust if they feel they need help discerning something that they have difficulty with..

But then again I very much still seek out help with discerning whether something actually from God or not..

and I am not young...

But most of all ....relationship..

Jesus Christ in you should be the one who you would lean on for knowing His voice...

We are His sheep and we need to know His voice and not the voice of another no matter what they say who proclaim to speak His words ...

Pray...

[Ephraimite]

What about hurricane katrina? Wouldn't have been nice to have a tested group of prophets tell us specifically about it and warn us?

There were. No one listened because they weren't famous.

We have no shortage of prophetic utterances.

We have a lack of discernment in too many "shepherds" compounded by a spiritual coma state. We are feeding our souls instead of our spirits in most congregations of the west.

Bravo Yod!

Who?

Who gave the prophecies?

Here is one of Joesph Smith's fulfilled prophecies.

THE

DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS

OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS

SECTION 87

Revelation and prophecy on war, given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, December 25, 1832. This section was received at a time when the brethren were reflecting and reasoning upon African slavery on the American continent and the slavery of the children of men throughout the world.

1 Verily, thus saith the Lord concerning the wars that will shortly come to pass, beginning at the rebellion of South Carolina, which will eventually terminate in the death and misery of many souls;

2 And the time will come that war will be poured out upon all nations, beginning at this place.

3 For behold, the Southern States shall be divided against the Northern States, and the Southern States will call on other nations, even the nation of Great Britain, as it is called, and they shall also call upon other nations, in order to defend themselves against other nations; and then war shall be poured out upon all nations.

4 And it shall come to pass, after many days, slaves shall rise up against their masters, who shall be marshaled and disciplined for war.

5 And it shall come to pass also that the remnants who are left of the land will marshal themselves, and shall become exceedingly angry, and shall vex the Gentiles with a sore vexation.

6 And thus, with the sword and by bloodshed the inhabitants of the earth shall mourn; and with famine, and plague, and earthquake, and the thunder of heaven, and the fierce and vivid lightning also, shall the inhabitants of the earth be made to feel the wrath, and indignation, and chastening hand of an Almighty God, until the consumption decreed hath made a full end of all nations;

7 That the cry of the saints, and of the blood of the saints, shall cease to come up into the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth, from the earth, to be avenged of their enemies.

8 Wherefore, stand ye in holy places, and be not moved, until the day of the Lord come; for behold, it cometh quickly, saith the Lord. Amen

I figured you were a Mormon.

Of course, Smith made this prophecy right after South Carolina had just attempted to leave the Union over the Amistad incident so it didn't take a brainiac to figure out what would occur...

Jackie, do you now understand the importance of being critical and discerning...you gave a thumbs up to Mormon theology.

Regardless, let's look at just one of his prophecies.

Verily, thus saith the Lord: It is wisdom in my servant David W. Patten, that he settle up all his business as soon as he possibly can, and make a disposition of his merchandise, that he may perform a mission unto me next spring, in company with others, even twelve including himself, to testify of my name and bear glad tidings unto the world. (Doctrine & Covenants 114:1)

Too bad that Patten died in 1838 before being able to complete this.

I also highly doubt that Smith was too concerned about slavery considering he believed that blacks were fallen angels.

You skipped over the part of Joseph Smith's prophecy about where he chose the state where the first shots of the Civil War were fired, Fort Sumter. He also prophesied that the South would seek help from Great Britain. Great Britain was seriously considering intervening for the South until the South's defeat at Gettysburg. Joseph Smith also predicted that Great Britian would seek help in defending itself from other nations which is what happened in WWII. Are those lucky guesses?

With regards that David Patten died before he could serve a mission. In 2 Kings 20:1-6, King Hezekiah was "sick unto death." The prophet Isaiah said, "Thus saith the Lord, Set thine house in order; for thou shalt die, and not live." Hezekiah then prays for mercy. Minutes later (v 4) Isaiah returns to Hezekiah and tells him that God has heard his prayers and Isaiah tells Hezekiah he will live 15 more years. Does that make Isaiah a false prophet?

With regards to Joseph Smith and you saying that he believed that blacks are fallen angels. He never said anything of the sort. I quote from Joseph Smith dating January 2, 1843, "Elder Hyde inquired the situation of the negro. They have souls, and are subjects of Salvation. Go into Cincinnati or any city, and find an educated negro, and you will see a man who has risen by the powers of his own mind to his exalted state of respectibility. The slaves in Washington are more refined than many in high places, and the black boys will take the shine off many of those they brush and wait on." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith p 269).

I'm not here to convice anybody that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. But if someone is sincerely wants to know about the life of Joseph Smith, I recomment watching a documentary by the Vermon Public Broadcasting Company titles "American Prophet." It is a very good non-biased documentary on his life. And last of all, ask God if Joseph Smith was a Prophet of God. That's what I did.

Stop proselytizing Mormon theology on these boards or you will be placed on mod review.

The question was poised at the begining, asking people's opinion about prophets. I gave my opinion and gave my answers to others' subsequent questions. But I guess Mormons, who are Christians by the way, should be censcored?

I also see that nobody answered my question wheather Isaiah was a false prophet or not from 2 Kings 20:1-6. I don't think he was and I don't think any of you do too.

Of course the teachings of ancient and modern day prophets are in line with past scripture. But to think that God has revealed everything to mankind or the Bible contains everything God has revealed to mankind is preposturous. During the time of the Old Testament, all the prophets were in line with their predecessors and yet they themselves added to existing scripture. If you don't believe God can reveal additional scripture then you would have rejected Moses as a prophet of God, you would have rejected, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel. You would have rejected Peter for reveling that the Gospel could be preached to the Gentiles. You would have rejected John for his "crazy, outlandish" Book of Revelation.

In other words, revelation from the prophet of the time period you live in is essential, he will always receive the current mind and will of the Lord for you. That is one of the main themes of the Bible. God's mode of operation is to reveal doctrine, warnings, and anything else God chooses to reveal to mankind through prophets so everybody is on the same sheet of paper, so to speak.

[Guest jckduboise]

Of course the teachings of ancient and modern day prophets are in line with past scripture. But to think that God has revealed everything to mankind or the Bible contains everything God has revealed to mankind is preposturous. During the time of the Old Testament, all the prophets were in line with their predecessors and yet they themselves added to existing scripture. If you don't believe God can reveal additional scripture then you would have rejected Moses as a prophet of God, you would have rejected, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel. You would have rejected Peter for reveling that the Gospel could be preached to the Gentiles. You would have rejected John for his "crazy, outlandish" Book of Revelation

It is a shame that people have this point of view Ephraimite..but they do..and they did and they will more..Jesus the Prophet spoke to them and said that some will be beaten, some will be thrown and prisons and others will die..

But as in the OT and the NT and today people are people and they are blind and deaf..

All prophets can do is keep speaking as God instructs and those who do not heed will pay the price for it.

[apothanein kerdos]

Of course the teachings of ancient and modern day prophets are in line with past scripture. But to think that God has revealed everything to mankind or the Bible contains everything God has revealed to mankind is preposturous. During the time of the Old Testament, all the prophets were in line with their predecessors and yet they themselves added to existing scripture. If you don't believe God can reveal additional scripture then you would have rejected Moses as a prophet of God, you would have rejected, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel. You would have rejected Peter for reveling that the Gospel could be preached to the Gentiles. You would have rejected John for his "crazy, outlandish" Book of Revelation

It is a shame that people have this point of view Ephraimite..but they do..and they did and they will more..Jesus the Prophet spoke to them and said that some will be beaten, some will be thrown and prisons and others will die..

But as in the OT and the NT and today people are people and they are blind and deaf..

All prophets can do is keep speaking as God instructs and those who do not heed will pay the price for it.

How can you not see that you are only propping up further Mormon doctrine that goes against the Bible? We do not have OT prophets anymore, with the last one that could be close to an equivalent dying before Christ (John the Baptist).

[Ephraimite]

Of course the teachings of ancient and modern day prophets are in line with past scripture. But to think that God has revealed everything to mankind or the Bible contains everything God has revealed to mankind is preposturous. During the time of the Old Testament, all the prophets were in line with their predecessors and yet they themselves added to existing scripture. If you don't believe God can reveal additional scripture then you would have rejected Moses as a prophet of God, you would have rejected, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel. You would have rejected Peter for reveling that the Gospel could be preached to the Gentiles. You would have rejected John for his "crazy, outlandish" Book of Revelation

It is a shame that people have this point of view Ephraimite..but they do..and they did and they will more..Jesus the Prophet spoke to them and said that some will be beaten, some will be thrown and prisons and others will die..

But as in the OT and the NT and today people are people and they are blind and deaf..

All prophets can do is keep speaking as God instructs and those who do not heed will pay the price for it.

How can you not see that you are only propping up further Mormon doctrine that goes against the Bible? We do not have OT prophets anymore, with the last one that could be close to an equivalent dying before Christ (John the Baptist).

Do you not read the Bible? There were no more prophets after John the Baptist, huh?

Acts 13: 1 "Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers..."

Acts 15:32 "And Judas and Silas, being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brethren with many words..."

Acts 21:10 "And as we tarried there many days, there came down from Judaea a certain prophet, named Agabus..."

1 Cor 12:28 "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers..."

Eph 3:5 "Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit..."

Eph 4:11 "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive"

Where in the Bible does it say we can not have modern day prophets? I am not critisizing anybody but my point view is dashed against the rocks because they don't want to open their eyes. I haven't seen anybody argue my point of view with scripture.

[Ephraimite]

Of course the teachings of ancient and modern day prophets are in line with past scripture. But to think that God has revealed everything to mankind or the Bible contains everything God has revealed to mankind is preposturous. During the time of the Old Testament, all the prophets were in line with their predecessors and yet they themselves added to existing scripture. If you don't believe God can reveal additional scripture then you would have rejected Moses as a prophet of God, you would have rejected, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel. You would have rejected Peter for reveling that the Gospel could be preached to the Gentiles. You would have rejected John for his "crazy, outlandish" Book of Revelation

It is a shame that people have this point of view Ephraimite..but they do..and they did and they will more..Jesus the Prophet spoke to them and said that some will be beaten, some will be thrown and prisons and others will die..

But as in the OT and the NT and today people are people and they are blind and deaf..

All prophets can do is keep speaking as God instructs and those who do not heed will pay the price for it.

Jackie, what point of view is that?

The lost books of the Bible are those documents that are mentioned in the Bible in such a way that it is evident they are considered authentic and valuable, but that are not found in the Bible today. Sometimes called missing scripture, they consist of at least the following:

book of the Wars of the Lord (Num. 21: 14)

book of Jasher (Josh. 10: 13; 2 Sam. 1: 18)

book of the acts of Solomon (1 Kgs. 11: 41)

book of Samuel the seer (1 Chr. 29: 29)

book of Gad the seer (1 Chr. 29: 29)

book of Nathan the prophet (1 Chr. 29: 29; 2 Chr. 9: 29)

prophecy of Ahijah (2 Chr. 9: 29)

visions of Iddo the seer (2 Chr. 9: 29; 2 Chr. 12: 15; 2 Chr. 13: 22)

book of Shemaiah (2 Chr. 12: 15)

book of Jehu (2 Chr. 20: 34)

sayings of the seers (2 Chr. 33: 19)

an epistle of Paul to the Corinthians, earlier than our present 1 Corinthians (1 Cor. 5: 9)

possibly an earlier epistle to the Ephesians (Eph. 3: 3)

an epistle to the Church at Laodicea (Col. 4: 16)

and some prophecies of Enoch, known to Jude (Jude 1: 14).

To these rather clear references to inspired writings other than our current Bible may be added another list that has allusions to writings that may or may not be contained within our present text, but may perhaps be known by a different title; for example, the book of the covenant (Ex. 24: 7), which may or may not be included in the current book of Exodus; the manner of the kingdom, written by Samuel (1 Sam. 10: 25); the rest of the acts of Uzziah written by Isaiah (2 Chr. 26: 22).

The foregoing items attest to the fact that our present Bible does not contain all of the word of the Lord that he gave to his people in former times, and remind us that the Bible, in its present form, is rather incomplete.

Matthew

[apothanein kerdos]

Of course the teachings of ancient and modern day prophets are in line with past scripture. But to think that God has revealed everything to mankind or the Bible contains everything God has revealed to mankind is preposturous. During the time of the Old Testament, all the prophets were in line with their predecessors and yet they themselves added to existing scripture. If you don't believe God can reveal additional scripture then you would have rejected Moses as a prophet of God, you would have rejected, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel. You would have rejected Peter for reveling that the Gospel could be preached to the Gentiles. You would have rejected John for his "crazy, outlandish" Book of Revelation

It is a shame that people have this point of view Ephraimite..but they do..and they did and they will more..Jesus the Prophet spoke to them and said that some will be beaten, some will be thrown and prisons and others will die..

But as in the OT and the NT and today people are people and they are blind and deaf..

All prophets can do is keep speaking as God instructs and those who do not heed will pay the price for it.

How can you not see that you are only propping up further Mormon doctrine that goes against the Bible? We do not have OT prophets anymore, with the last one that could be close to an equivalent dying before Christ (John the Baptist).

Do you not read the Bible? There were no more prophets after John the Baptist, huh?

Acts 13: 1 "Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers..."

Acts 15:32 "And Judas and Silas, being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brethren with many words..."

Acts 21:10 "And as we tarried there many days, there came down from Judaea a certain prophet, named Agabus..."

1 Cor 12:28 "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers..."

Eph 3:5 "Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit..."

Eph 4:11 "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive"

Where in the Bible does it say we can not have modern day prophets? I am not critisizing anybody but my point view is dashed against the rocks because they don't want to open their eyes. I haven't seen anybody argue my point of view with scripture.

I said there are not prophets such as there were in the OT, John the Baptist was the last one. Prophet, in a NT sense, means to reveal something and not necessarily to be a leader.

Conversly, John Smith was a false prophet and a false teacher. This is why discernment is needed.

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

The question was poised at the begining, asking people's opinion about prophets. I gave my opinion and gave my answers to others' subsequent questions. But I guess Mormons, who are Christians by the way, should be censcored?

You are not censored as this is a privately funded Christian Ministry. We stick to Christian Orthodoxy.

Mormonism is not Christianity when examined in the Light of the Truth of Gods Word and commonly accepted Christian Orthodoxy.

We are commanded to receive no other Gospel than the One that Saved us and that we first received.

Ga