Questions Regarding "Prophets"

[Ovedya]

I have some questions regarding today's self-professed "prophets." Please answer according to your thoughts on the matter, and provide Scriptural/historical evidence in support of your statements where you feel it is appropriate:

Conservatively there are perhaps several thousand websites on the internet authored by self-professed "prophets," but let's just say for the sake of argument that there are only a total of a thousand. Using the tools the Lord gave us to discern - namely the Bible, the gift of discernment, and the inner sense from the Spirit of Truth (Which is the Holy Spirit) - how can believers "weed out" those that are false among this number?

Secondly, considering the sheer number of websites out there, how can believers discern between them to be sure there are no conflicting messages? If even, using our conservative figure of a thousand, we were able to spend the time reading all the "prophecies," is it even possible to compare and contrast the messages to be able to determine which are true and which are false?

Third, can all "prophets" prophesy with variations to their messages? What if some conflict with others? Which do we favor and which do we toss aside?

When warning the apostles about false persons the Lord Jesus used two terms: False prophets, and false Christ's (cf. Matt. 7:15; 24:11; 24; Mark 13:22; Luke 6:26). This seems to imply that there are actually two categories of false persons, in terms of who claims to be speaking on behalf of Christ.

A "false Christ" it seems, is a person who comes in the name of the Lord and claims position of the Messiah. That is, he assumes a position of absolute leadership, setting himself up as a "savior" in addition to, or in replacement of the risen Savior, Jesus Christ. The passage that immediately comes to my mind is 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12, in which Paul describes "the lawless one," who is anti-Christ, who establishes himself as Messiah.

However, a "false prophet" can essentially be anyone who comes in the name of the Lord, and who "prophesies" according to a vision or a dream. Typically most Christians point out the verses in the Old Testament where God warned Israel of the false prophets, saying that if any of them prophesies falsely (Usually determined to be a specific dated prediction) then that one should be rejected. So now read the following verses and consider my next few questions:

Jeremiah 14:16: "And Jehovah said to me, The prophets prophesy falsehood in My name; I did not send them or command them or speak to them. They are prophesying to you a false vision and divination and a worthless thing and the deceit of their own heart.

Therefore thus says Jehovah concerning the prophets who prophesy in My name, although I did not send them, yet they say, A sword and famine will not be in this land: By sword and by famine those prophets will be consumed.

And the people to whom they prophesy will be cast out into the streets of Jerusalem because of the famine and the sword; and there will be no one to bury them - them, their wives, and their sons and their daughters - and I will pour out their own wickedness on them.: ""

The context of those verses is basically the Lord telling Jeremiah that there will be severe punishment for Isreal. Jeremiah tells the Lord, "Ah, Lord Jehovah! Indeed, the prophets say to them, You will not see sword, nor will you have famine, for I will give you assured peace in this place." (v. 13)

From these verses there appears to me at least another aspect of discerning a false prophet, then. In this case, the false prophets are saying "prosperity" when the Lord has clearly said "punishment." So my questions are as follows:

1) Can Christians discern a false prophet by the words of their prophecy, without looking specifically for a date or a time by which we can judge a prophecy true or false by its fulfillment or passing?

2) We have seen and heard many messages from self-professed "prophets" on the web which condemn America and warn the church of the Lord's impending judgment on this country specifically. So, given the verses from Jeremiah, what if the Lord's intention for America is something different? And in context with my previous question regarding conflicting messages, how do we not know that prophecies concerning impending doom upon America are not false?

3) In the verses from Jeremiah there are prophets who prophesy prosperity for Israel, not just one. In that case, Jeremiah, who received the direct word of the Lord, was true, and the false prophets (plural) were false. If there were one single prophecy given out of the conservative thousand that I mentioned above that contradicts all the others, should we consider the one more than the others?

4) Seems to me that Israel most likely would have assumed Jeremiah the false prophet, and they would have listened more to the abundance of prophets that spoke good things rather than bad; and they did. What does that say about the many thousands of "prophesies" that Christians readily accept as true, without discernment?

5) I found it interesting in Jeremiah 14:14 that the Lord used the term, "...and the deceit of their own heart." That sounds to me like the false prophets prophesied falsely because of something that they conjured up in their own minds, because of desire, and because that which they prophesied was what they really wanted to happen. Even that they might have actually convinced themselves that their prophesies were true because that desire was so strong. In other words, they even deceived themselves! So how do we know that the same is not the case with today's so-called "prophets"? How can we be so sure that the "human elements," with all of its hangups, etc., of the person speaking the "prophesy" are not what are guiding the prophecy?

Just so you all are aware, I am not fully convinced that any of those that call themselves prophets in this age fulfill the same function as the prophets in the Old Testament. My opinion is that the dynamic of the office has changed because of the Lord's having fulfilled most of the prophesies concerning Him, and that the ones concerning Israel and the church that have yet to be fulfilled will be done so in due time. We can discuss this further, if you like. But for now I would like to see the bulk of this thread addressing the questions I have put to you all.

Grace to you,

Ovedya

[Guest yod]

I have one rule for discerning a prophet.

If they say they are....they ain't.

Works every time

I believe that "prophecying" is a function of every saint...but only as the Holy Spirit wills. It usually doesn't involve being a seer, though.

Prophets speak for God to the people and priests speak for the people to God.

It's so simple yet people try to turn it into an "office" of spiritual authority because they want attention. That is purely pride...and anyone speaking for God can not be prideful.

[Ovedya]

I have one rule for discerning a prophet.

If they say they are....they ain't.

Works every time

Ah....But what if they don't say "I am," but, "it (the prophecy, vision, etc.) is"?

[Guest yod]

Then you smile and say, "Bless your little heart....guess we'll see, huh?"

The spirit of prophecy is subject to the prophets (all of us). If someone is trying to touch God's glory that is a sure sign that they are eaten up with the error of Balaam.

If it is true it will not be of private interpretation. Like Katrina....many thousands of people warned we would experience disaster on the day Gaza was given up. We did.

No one person can take credit for that.

[Ovedya]

Interesting. Thanks, yod.

[Guest yod]

So much of the stuff I'm hearing lately is fortune-teller tricks. General statements that could be true for anyone at anytime. Maybe they really think God is that vague but I think they've eaten a bad pepperoni and it gave them weird dreams.

I'm not impressed to even finish reading most of this stuff....it's so boring that it can't be God.

oy freakin' veyzmir.

I should leave again.

[Can Do (Phil 4:13)]

I personally do not believe that modern day so called 'prophets' are legitamate. My reason being that in essence, 'prophets' are adding to the Bible, or extending on the Word, something that we have been well warned against doing. When charasmatic churches buy into the whole prophetic ministry, it makes my skin crawl.

Modern day so called 'Prophets' are scrambled spiritually I believe.

Faithie

[Openly Curious]

One rule of thumb and that is the word instructs that the "spirits of the prophets" which are the individuals who are prophesying should be tested to see if they be of God or not. Okay how can we have discernment and know for a certainty.

Well since we know that scripture instructs us about this that the spirits of the prophets are "Subject" to the prophets. Well what does that mean? It doesn't say just those who have my word or just those who have visions and dreams. It covers all the prophets as a whole. In the old testament you had schools of the prophets where you saw this as they were subject to the prophets they learned from them.

It is the same today the spirits of the prophets are "subject" to the prophets. What does it mean to be subject? It means the individuals spirit must be submitted to and taught by the Spirit of God by the prophets in the bible both old and new testament. And that being the case you cannot prophesy against it it must match if it does not then they are operating contrary to the instructions given to us in the word. And to what standard do we try the spirits to see if they be of God is it not the Holy Scriptures.

The word goes on to say to let the others judge. Well what is our guidelines for judging such prohesy. It is the guidelines in which God has given to the prophets if they do not conform to the word and are not following biblical instructions concerning the gift then they are out of order and will only cause chaos and confusion in the body.

I trust the Lord instructions on the matter and use this above any of my own thinking because some things that are said can be how I really feel and think and I want to embrace some of the things that are being said especially with sins being so rampant in our nation. But I must trust the word and the guidelines given above all else for it is the more Sure word of Prophecy and we do well to give heed unto it as the daystar that shinneth in the night as the apostle Peter said

You pose good questions in which to ponder on this subject. blessings

OC

[Guest LadyC]

at a site called www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/prophecy.htm, it says the following.... actually, each of the following includes a paragraph with scriptural references to support it, but i'm just going to include the main points without the rest. if anyone wants to read the whole thing, i'll let them do so at the originating site.

Based on our own personal studies, it appears that the majority of Bible prophecies have these characteristics in common:

1. Bible prophecies involve specific places

2. Bible prophecies involve specific people

3. Bible prophets are Jewish

4. Bible prophecies were usually delivered in Israel

5. Bible prophecies explain why a particular event is going to happen

from a variety of other sites, i've accumulated some questions and summarized them that can help us to discern whether a prophet is truly speaking God's words or if they're speaking of themselves. i posted a lengthy message about this on another board recently. i'm copying portions of that here. (i will not post it in its entirety because other parts referred to a specific situation we were dealing there.)

1. the general characteristic/personality of every biblical prophet was one of humbleness and unworthiness.

2. one test of a prophet is fulfilled predictions. (jeremiah 28).

3. another test of a prophet is that what they say must be 100% in accordance with scripture. isaiah 8 is clear on this point. "to the law and to the testimony, if they do not speak according to His Word, there is no light in them."

4. a third test is their fruits. matthew 7 points out "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. . . . Therefore by their fruits you will know them"

a) what is the general tenor of the prophet's life? reliable or inconsistant?

b) do his/her teachings exalt the written word?

c) does the prophet reflect accurately the clear, consistant Biblical message?

d) what is the result of the prophet's LEADERSHIP? under his/her guidance, does the work of God prosper in ways that best fulfill the gospel mission?

e) do sinners find the Lord through his/her writings?

f)oes the leader reflect the simple life style exemplified by Biblical prophets and by the Lord Himself?

g) The most valid test for authentic prophets is seen in the consequences of their teachings. Do they turn minds and conduct Godward so that the life pattern reflects the spirit and practice of Jesus?

h) the tests of a prophet are cumulative in the sense that all the tests must apply; but without the test of "good fruit," all the other tests should be suspect.

now, we know that one test of saying that the prophet believes that Jesus came in the flesh. but on that same site i was just posting questions from, it goes into more depth about that.

Quote

John saw the problem in his day, and his warning is even more relevant today. The whole truth about why Jesus came, why He became our Saviour and Example, why He died and now serves as our High Priest—all this is involved in this test of a genuine prophet. This acknowledgment of Jesus "in the flesh" is more than an intellectual assent. Jesus is not our Lord if we do not submit to His Lordship. Jesus is not our Saviour if we do not let Him save us from our sins (Matt. 1:21). Actions reveal the genuineness of personal commitment. And correct knowledge helps us to make quality commitments that enable us to produce actions that honor God.

So the test: Does the prophet teach the whole truth about the purpose of Christ's coming "in the flesh"?

there were also several final points made at one of the above sites that i'm just going to copy here. good things to ponder.

Heroic and Unequivocal Witnessing

Numerous are the Biblical examples of fearless witnessing by faithful, authentic prophets. Nathan gave heavy-duty condemnation to David, his king (2 Sam. 12).

Elijah confronted Ahab, his king (not easy work). Note his response to Ahab's question: "Is that you, O troubler of Israel?" (1 Kings 18:17). Answer: "I have not troubled Israel, but you and your father's house have, in that you have forsaken the commandments of the Lord and have followed the Baals" (vs. 18). Timely and fearless!

Coupled with the other tests, unequivocal witnessing is an essential part of a genuine prophet's ministry.

Practical Counsel, Not Abstractions, Characterize Their Ministry

The writings of genuine prophets are known for their intense practicality. Note Christ's Sermon on the Mount or any of Paul's letters to young churches. Compared to religious writings generally, the Bible is in a class by itself. Not merely because of the subject matter, but because the Biblical prophets speak to the human condition. Not theory but practical admonition, even when talking about theological aspects of who Jesus is, why He came, and what He is now doing!

One characteristic of many false prophets is their appeal to the mysterious, to the lure for novelty. For some reason, people are inclined to follow religious leaders who attract them with fanciful prophetic interpretations or with involved theological fantasies.

But the genuine prophet speaks to "common" people, to people with practical problems who need practical solutions and comfort. Without this emphasis, the "prophet" lacks divine credentials.

Weight of Evidence

In summary, when a person has all the above characteristics and meets the above tests, the "weight of evidence" seems compelling, adequate, and coercive. Undergirding all these observable tests, however, the highest test of a prophet's credentials is his or her message: Does it square with all previous prophetic messages as it speaks in perhaps fuller terms to the urgency of the prophet's day?

[tah]

I have only seen one or two sites that deal with this subject specifically...I do not seek it out...

But I think there are a lot hearing people who have Gods word for the moment and I count of a witness in me from the Holy Spirit to know who is speaking His word and who is just speaking if I do hear it .....

If I am unsure I ask someone I trust to pray with me about it....

If there is a prophecy out there I need to hear God will bring it to me..Yes?

perhaps that sounds pretty childish but that is what I count on...

I do not see any other way to know but by His Spirit in me...

1Jo 2:26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.

1Jo 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.