The Servant Posted July 12, 2006 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 21 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted July 12, 2006 The answer is YES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark777 Posted July 12, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 416 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/16/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted July 12, 2006 " Jesus therefore six days before the passover came to Bethany, where Lazarus was, whom Jesus raised from the dead. So they made him a supper there: and Martha served; but Lazarus was one of them that sat at meat with him. Mary therefore took a pound of ointment of pure nard, very precious, and anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped his feet with her hair: and the house was filled with the odor of the ointment. But Judas Iscariot, one of his disciples, that should betray him, saith, Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred shillings, and given to the poor? Now this he said, not because he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and having the bag took away what was put therein." John 12:1-6 Judas was a thief who stole from Jesus the son of God. Could a believer who had become saved through a knowledge of God's love through Jesus steal from Him? I don't think so! Judas was a devil and a thief. The answer is NO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
germanJoy Posted July 12, 2006 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 97 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted July 12, 2006 (edited) ??? Can a person who had a real relationship with Jesus walk away from their salvation and end up hearing the words, "Depart from Me," on Judgment Day??? I'd like to hear some of your responses before I put mine out there. Please give scripture references to back-up your view or opinion. This is quite a "tricky" question but I'll try to answer it as discreet as possible. A person who has a REAL DEEP relationship with Christ cannot be lost (those who repent) but a person who has a FALLACIOUS SUPERFICIAL relationship with Christ can be lost (those who don't repent) and will hear "Depart from me" on the Judgment day. Both have relationships, both are sons but not both DO THE WILL OF THE FATHER. "But what do you think? A man had two sons, and he came to the first and said, 'Son, go work today in the vineyard.' And he answered and said, 'I will, sir;' and he did not go. And he came to the second and said the same thing. But he answered and said, 'I will not;' yet he afterward regretted it and went. Which of the two did the will of his father?" They said, "The latter." Jesus said to them, "Truly truly I say to you that the tax-gatherers and harlots will get into the kingdom of God before you." Matthew 21:28-31 Similarly, one christian repents (rejects the system of traditional religion, got born again; sees himself as a sinner and turns to God) and works in the vineyard. The other christian repents not (like the pharisees born into the system of traditional religion but this time of Christianity and sees no need to be born again) and works not in the vineyard. Although both are sons, only one does the will of the Father. One said no but later obeyed, the other said yes but did not obey. Similar parables are given to illustrate the difference between having a real relationship and a fallacious relationship with God i.e, Parable of the Wheat and the Tares, Parable of the Ten Virgins, Parable of the Talent, etc. A true believer is one who has faith confirmed by works or good works. A false believer is one who has faith without works or faith with evil works. A true believer is one who believes on salvation by faith alone. A false believer is one who believes on salvation by faith PLUS one or many more. A true believer believes and calls to only One God in Three Persons revealed as the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. A false believer believes on EITHER the Father OR the Son OR the Holy Spirit and/or calls to many holy saints/holy sons of god.... I can go on and on but my time is running out. Edited July 12, 2006 by germanJoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiteeagele0 Posted July 12, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 170 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/10/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/24/1992 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Yeah thats also what i wanted to know did judas recive the holy spirit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark777 Posted July 12, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 416 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/16/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted July 12, 2006 How can a devil and thief receive the Holy Spirit? Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RND Posted July 12, 2006 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 122 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/23/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/08/1962 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Yeah thats also what i wanted to know did judas recive the holy spirit How could he have? He killed himself before Pentacost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Hazard, The text does not say that Judas was given the HolySpirit or exercised any gift from God - it refers generally to the twelve - thats all. The Scriptures refer to Judas as a thief. Mark Matt. 10:1 He called His 12 disciples to Him, He gave them power.... Matt. 10:2-3-4 the names of the 12 are given. In verse 4 Judas was named one of the 12. If Judas didn't receive the Spirit, neither did the other 11. It doesn't say they all received the Spirit but Judas didn't because he was a thief. It seems to me that if one has power over unclean spirits and diseases, that would be a gift from God. Especially when you're getting it from Christ Himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAZARD Posted July 12, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 320 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 6,830 Content Per Day: 0.84 Reputation: 3,570 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/16/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted July 12, 2006 Im Matt. 10 we have the fact recorded that Judas as one of the "twelve disciples" recieved power over demons, sichness and disease and a call to preach the gosple. Of these twelve (Judas included) it is said that Christ gave them power and sent them forth and commanded them to preach, and to heal the sick. Christ said to Judas and all the twelve, "freely ye have recieved, freely give. . . . I send you forth as sheep . . . it shall not be ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you" (Matt. 10:1-20). This statement proves that Judas was once a saved chosen and genuine apostle. He was then once a true believer, a saved man, one divinely empowerd for service and equal in every sense to the others, a called preacher, a destroyer of Satan's works, an obedient man, a sheep, a man filled with the spirit, and one who had God as his "Father." In Mark 6:7-133 we read that the twelve (Judas included) went "forth two by two . . . and preached that men should repent. And they (Judas included) cast out devisl, and anointed the sick with oil, and healed them. This proves Judas was a divinely empowerd man, a sucessful preacher and endued with power to heal. If he was not a saved man and if he could not have all these experiences and do all these miracles as a sinner, then it would seem that the modern Christians who claim to be saved regardless of what they do should be able to do as much as Judas did whom they say was never saved. It is unreasonable and going too far to accuse Jesus of choosing an unsaved man to preach repentance and holiness, and to heal the sick, to cast out devils, and to represent the Kingdom of God among men. The Holy Spirit through Luke records that Judas, "By Transgression fell" (Acts 1:15-25). Judas was not always a "devil" and a "thief." He became both after he had been saved for some time. His weakness was the love of money and this caused his fall (John 12:6; Luke 22:5; Matt. 26:14-16). If he had refused to be the treasurer of the first Christian disciples and frankly told them that money was his weakness, he would have been better off. Judas had seen Christ escape the mob many times and he no doubt thought that the Lord would escape again and he himself would be better off thirty pieces of silver. The Greek word diabolos translated devil in John 6:70 is also used of men. It litterally means adversary. Any human or spirit-adversary of Christ is a devil. It is translated "false accusers" (2 Tim. 3:3; Tit. 2:3), "slanderers" (1 Tim. 3:11), and "devil" elswhere. It teaches that Judas became an adversary, accuser, and slanderer of Christ. He was not a devil from the beginning as many teach. No such statement is found in the Bible of Judas, or anyone else. Even Satan was not a devil from the beginning. He was a sinless angel in the beginning (Ezek. 28:11-17). It was not untill the end of Christ's ministry that Judas began to pilfer and to grow cold in his love for Christ. It was not untill the last supper that the devil entered into him; that is, became united with him in the same crime. It was two days before the passover that he put into the heart of Judas to go to the enimies of Jesus to betray Him into their hands (Matt. 26:1-5, 14-16; John 13:2). It was atthis time that he openly broke with Christ and saught opportunity to betray Him. Judas was sorry afterwards for his betrayal (Matt. 27:3-5), and he could have been forgiven as much as any of the others who cursed ,and denied Christ and fled like cowards in the test. Peter denied Christ as Christ fortold, three times, He even cursed and denied Him. Peter later wept and repented and He was forgiven. Judas betrayed Jesus as fortold but instead of repenting as Peter repented for his sin, Judas brooded over his sin for a long time and Satan was able to talk him into committing suicide by hanging himself, and his name was removed from the book of life. Now many say he was not a saved man. Yes he was. His name was in the book of life for it to be able to be removed! Paul was a saved man and as a saved man was afraid of being "cast away." He literally meant he was afraid of loosing his soul in Hell with all the other reprobates and rejected men. When he told us what he had to do lest he should loose his soul, he wanted us to know that true security is in bringing the body under subjection as in Romans 8:13 and in living right instead of living in sin EVERY DAY, as advocated by unconditional eternal securityites (Gal. 5:16-24; Rom. 8:1-13; 1 Cor. 6:9-11; 2 Cor. 5:17; 7:1; 10:4, 5; Gal. 2:20; 6:14; Phil. 3:7-14; 2 Tim. 4:7, 8; Heb. 12:14). Paul taught conditional security, which is the only true security in Scripture. Jesus Himself, acknowledged to the Father that of those whom the Father had given Him, Judas was the only one whom He had lost (John 17:12). Christ could not have lost Judas if He never had him to lose. Jesus also testified that every one (including Judas) that the Father had given Him, Jesus had given eternal life (John 17:2). Judas had this eternallife as much as the others but he became "lost" later and "by transgression fell" (Acts 1:25). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 if i may intrude here and post a thought regarding judas being referred to as a devil. if you'll all recall, Jesus said "get thee behind me, satan" to peter. yet nobody here denies that peter was one of the 12, and peter had received the gift of the holy spirit. sure, judas was a thief. he was a sinner. just as we ALL are. he was also a disciple, a friend of Jesus, a saved person. but he abandoned his faith and his loyalty to Christ and exchanged it for 30 pieces of silver. he became apostate. he never returned to Christ. peter, on the other hand, repented and made himself right with God before he died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark777 Posted July 13, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 416 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/16/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted July 13, 2006 Sorry LC, but Jesus said that He called them all but "ONE OF YOU IS A DEVIL". He didn't say, "well, you guy are a bunch of sinners. He said one of you is a devil. For the other passages - they refer to the twelve but no where does it say Judas received anything from the Holy Spirit - on the contrary, it said He was a devil and a thief. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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