Guest man Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Sorry LC, but Jesus said that He called them all but "ONE OF YOU IS A DEVIL". He didn't say, "well, you guy are a bunch of sinners. He said one of you is a devil. For the other passages - they refer to the twelve but no where does it say Judas received anything from the Holy Spirit - on the contrary, it said He was a devil and a thief. Mark Read Matthew 10:1-2-3-4. Verse 4 clearly states that Judas was counted as one of the twelve. Verse 1 states that Christ gave them (the twelve) power. Regardless of who Judas was, he was still counted as one of the twelve. The bible clearly states that and it can't be denied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark777 Posted July 13, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 416 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/16/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted July 13, 2006 Yes, he was one of the twelve but while they were believers - he was a devil. the Scriptures refer to the twelve but in no way does it say Judas specifically - being a devil and a thief - received any gift from the Holy Spirit. Jesus allowed Judas to be included in their number to fulfill prophecy. What is absolutely clear is that devils do not receive gifts from the Holy Spirit. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Yes, he was one of the twelve but while they were believers - he was a devil. the Scriptures refer to the twelve but in no way does it say Judas specifically - being a devil and a thief - received any gift from the Holy Spirit. Jesus allowed Judas to be included in their number to fulfill prophecy. What is absolutely clear is that devils do not receive gifts from the Holy Spirit. Mark Can you show me where it says that Judas received nothing. And can you also give me the verse where Judas was first mentioned as a devil and thief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark777 Posted July 13, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 416 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/16/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted July 13, 2006 Man, John 6:70. Jesus called Judas a devil. As I asked before, did Judas at that point just become a devil? No! He was a devil to begin with. And if you can show me a verse that says devils receive gifts for God then I will recant. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RND Posted July 13, 2006 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 122 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/23/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/08/1962 Share Posted July 13, 2006 What is also clear from Scripture is that some disciples who, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RND Posted July 13, 2006 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 122 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/23/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/08/1962 Share Posted July 13, 2006 How could he have? He killed himself before Pentacost. While I indeed understand, and greatly appreciate, what everyone has mentioned with respect to my comment quoted above I think maybe I was simply "splitting hairs" in a sense. The Comforter, The Holy Spirit, really didn't begin to dwell with the 12 Disciples until Christ was crucified and after Judas killed himself. John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. Jesus, while He indeed gave gifts to the 12 Disciples (including Judas), I'm fairly certain it was not by the direct power of the Holy Spirit, but by the Power of God through Jesus Christ in which he did this. And yes, I will be the first to admit this is "splitting hairs." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark777 Posted July 13, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 416 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/16/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted July 13, 2006 der098te0r9ugdf09gud9g erg8ueg er0gew vrgdfflgkf! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted July 13, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Mark777 And as for you Horizon, you are funny. We exhaustively covered this before. It is one of the few passages you harp on about this. I answered them effectively and completely before - and your response back was to repeat yourself. I don't believe you are right and you know why. No Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 ok mark, whatever you say. but i stand by what i said. i'll explain why. in matthew 10, judas is SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED BY NAME as one of the 12 apostles who were given the power of the Holy Spirit to heal the sick and drive out demons. it is impossible for a devil to cast out the devil. matthew 12: 25 Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. 26 If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? you can say that scripture also says that many will stand before God and say "didn't we cast out demons in your name" and he will say depart from me. judas, no doubt, will have to depart. but matthew 10 is VERY clear that judas wasn't just going around casting out demons in the name of Jesus without knowing Jesus, but that he was specifically and intentionally given the devine authority to cast demons out. furthermore... He didn't say, "well, you guy are a bunch of sinners. He said one of you is a devil. scripture is clear throughout the entire bible that we are all a bunch of sinners. it is also clear that even peter was called satan by Jesus when he was being disobedient. yet that did not change the fact that peter was one of the 12. so you can disagree with me all you want. i stand firm on the word of God. John 6:70. Jesus called Judas a devil. As I asked before, did Judas at that point just become a devil? No! He was a devil to begin with. And if you can show me a verse that says devils receive gifts for God then I will recant. i showed you. but i don't believe you will recant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 i'm sorry, i should have clarified myself... i didn't show you where scripture says devils can recieve gifts of God. i showed you where your whole argument falls apart by pointing out where in scripture it says JUDAS received the gifts of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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