Mark777 Posted July 11, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 416 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/16/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted July 11, 2006 Lord, I ask you to melt Ozzy's heart and draw him to your Son, Jesus Christ. Make him a Paul for the generation that he influenced. In Jesus name, Amen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamie Posted July 11, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 104 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,026 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/13/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted July 11, 2006 Lord, I ask you to melt Ozzy's heart and draw him to your Son, Jesus Christ. Make him a Paul for the generation that he influenced. In Jesus name, Amen. Amen, I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yahsway Posted July 11, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 657 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/20/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/15/1959 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Well said prayer Mark and I too add my Amen, may it be so Lord! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyRaven Posted July 11, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,981 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/22/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/20/1964 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Years ago when ozzy was young and thinking about all this is when someone should have witnessed to him. He was thinking about Christ and Satan and the meaning of life then. Now, he has been hardened by drink and drugs and years of people yelling that he is a satanist - when in fact he was an entertainer making money. If you watched his reality show - a young man witnessed to him in his living room. Ozzy just got up and walked out. Mark It will take more than human means (if it happens)...It will take the supernatural intervention of God. Only God can truly reveal Himself to Ozzie. And God knows how to turn a heart of stone to mush. In that respect Ozzy is no worse than the rest of us before we were saved. It wasn't the alter call, the music, the brilliant presentation of a friend, a tract, etc... that brought us to Christ. It was the HS melting our heart of stone. The rest are vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jckduboise Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 really folks what does it matter if he is a good guy or not? what matters is if we are placing judgment on another. Not for us to do.....again judge not lest ye be judged. and another thing why is so much time spent on topics such as these when we are to be teaching and ministering to one another and not wasting our time on foolish things such as this..GROSS! Respectfully, I disagree. We were never told NOT to judge bad behavior or another's fruit whether it is good or bad. What Jesus was speaking of in Matthew 7 was to be properly prepared in motive and manner when we "judge" another person's behavior. He likened it to a speck in an eye; we are not to ignore the speck in another's eye. We are to prepare ourselves, ensuring we have clear vision, and offer to help them remove that speck. Motive & manner is important; recognizing and addressing unholy behavior in ourselves AND others is important as well. I don't think these discussions are a waste of time IF they show the distinction between what is good & holy and whate is evil & destructive. Think about it saints. And so you find this statement not judgmental? Quote LadyRaven "I heard a rumour once that he had become a Christian, like Alice Cooper had. I watched his reality TV show a few times and concluded that... *IF* he did, it doesn't show. Of course it is possible that belief not show for a while as a new believer learns, it happened with a good friend of mine, the onlyt hing that changed for about 3 yrs was his language, then he blossomed like an oak tree...but I don't know how long he supposedly has been... And if he didn't, which is more likely...his mind is so gone...fried by years of drug abuse...that if you tried to wittness to him, he wouldn't be able to follow your train of thought. When I was in High School, and off and on since then, I prayed for Ozzy. I really would like to believe he's saved, but I remain very skeptical." end quote seems pretty much a judgment to me..think about it saint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneB Posted July 11, 2006 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 232 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 7,261 Content Per Day: 0.96 Reputation: 79 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/19/1959 Share Posted July 11, 2006 really folks what does it matter if he is a good guy or not? what matters is if we are placing judgment on another. Not for us to do.....again judge not lest ye be judged. and another thing why is so much time spent on topics such as these when we are to be teaching and ministering to one another and not wasting our time on foolish things such as this..GROSS! Respectfully, I disagree. We were never told NOT to judge bad behavior or another's fruit whether it is good or bad. What Jesus was speaking of in Matthew 7 was to be properly prepared in motive and manner when we "judge" another person's behavior. He likened it to a speck in an eye; we are not to ignore the speck in another's eye. We are to prepare ourselves, ensuring we have clear vision, and offer to help them remove that speck. Motive & manner is important; recognizing and addressing unholy behavior in ourselves AND others is important as well. I don't think these discussions are a waste of time IF they show the distinction between what is good & holy and whate is evil & destructive. Think about it saints. And so you find this statement not judgmental? Quote LadyRaven "I heard a rumour once that he had become a Christian, like Alice Cooper had. I watched his reality TV show a few times and concluded that... *IF* he did, it doesn't show. Of course it is possible that belief not show for a while as a new believer learns, it happened with a good friend of mine, the onlyt hing that changed for about 3 yrs was his language, then he blossomed like an oak tree...but I don't know how long he supposedly has been... And if he didn't, which is more likely...his mind is so gone...fried by years of drug abuse...that if you tried to wittness to him, he wouldn't be able to follow your train of thought. When I was in High School, and off and on since then, I prayed for Ozzy. I really would like to believe he's saved, but I remain very skeptical." end quote seems pretty much a judgment to me..think about it saint Okay, I thought about it. I don't find the statement by LadyRaven inappropriate. She was stating an opinion that Ozzie's fruit does not reflect that of a Spirit-filled person. She wasn't casting judgement on his final destiny. Rather, I see a concern for his soul. I mean...she prayed for him! Regardless, I wasn't defending and specific statements; I was defending the importance of "judging" behavior...bad or good. The Word of God gives us the ability to distinguish. When we refuse to draw judgement, we lose the ability to distinguish good from bad, which is much of the problem in today's society and church even. Too many misquote Jesus or twist what HE actually was teaching in Matthew 7. Even former Presidents have used that passage of Scripture in order to divert attention and avoid judgement. Read Matthew 7 closer and show where Jesus said NOT to judge. He didn't. Rather he told us to judge righteously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamie Posted July 11, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 104 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,026 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/13/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted July 11, 2006 Years ago when ozzy was young and thinking about all this is when someone should have witnessed to him. He was thinking about Christ and Satan and the meaning of life then. Now, he has been hardened by drink and drugs and years of people yelling that he is a satanist - when in fact he was an entertainer making money. If you watched his reality show - a young man witnessed to him in his living room. Ozzy just got up and walked out. Mark It will take more than human means (if it happens)...It will take the supernatural intervention of God. Only God can truly reveal Himself to Ozzie. And God knows how to turn a heart of stone to mush. In that respect Ozzy is no worse than the rest of us before we were saved. It wasn't the alter call, the music, the brilliant presentation of a friend, a tract, etc... that brought us to Christ. It was the HS melting our heart of stone. The rest are vehicles. I was alone in my bedroom, maybe he will be alone too. We don't know. God is a supernatural awesome God. Nothing is impossible for Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneB Posted July 11, 2006 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 232 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 7,261 Content Per Day: 0.96 Reputation: 79 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/19/1959 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Years ago when ozzy was young and thinking about all this is when someone should have witnessed to him. He was thinking about Christ and Satan and the meaning of life then. Now, he has been hardened by drink and drugs and years of people yelling that he is a satanist - when in fact he was an entertainer making money. If you watched his reality show - a young man witnessed to him in his living room. Ozzy just got up and walked out. Mark It will take more than human means (if it happens)...It will take the supernatural intervention of God. Only God can truly reveal Himself to Ozzie. And God knows how to turn a heart of stone to mush. In that respect Ozzy is no worse than the rest of us before we were saved. It wasn't the alter call, the music, the brilliant presentation of a friend, a tract, etc... that brought us to Christ. It was the HS melting our heart of stone. The rest are vehicles. I was alone in my bedroom, maybe he will be alone too. We don't know. God is a supernatural awesome God. Nothing is impossible for Him. Amen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jckduboise Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 really folks what does it matter if he is a good guy or not? what matters is if we are placing judgment on another. Not for us to do.....again judge not lest ye be judged. and another thing why is so much time spent on topics such as these when we are to be teaching and ministering to one another and not wasting our time on foolish things such as this..GROSS! Respectfully, I disagree. We were never told NOT to judge bad behavior or another's fruit whether it is good or bad. What Jesus was speaking of in Matthew 7 was to be properly prepared in motive and manner when we "judge" another person's behavior. He likened it to a speck in an eye; we are not to ignore the speck in another's eye. We are to prepare ourselves, ensuring we have clear vision, and offer to help them remove that speck. Motive & manner is important; recognizing and addressing unholy behavior in ourselves AND others is important as well. I don't think these discussions are a waste of time IF they show the distinction between what is good & holy and whate is evil & destructive. Think about it saints. And so you find this statement not judgmental? Quote LadyRaven "I heard a rumour once that he had become a Christian, like Alice Cooper had. I watched his reality TV show a few times and concluded that... *IF* he did, it doesn't show. Of course it is possible that belief not show for a while as a new believer learns, it happened with a good friend of mine, the onlyt hing that changed for about 3 yrs was his language, then he blossomed like an oak tree...but I don't know how long he supposedly has been... And if he didn't, which is more likely...his mind is so gone...fried by years of drug abuse...that if you tried to wittness to him, he wouldn't be able to follow your train of thought. When I was in High School, and off and on since then, I prayed for Ozzy. I really would like to believe he's saved, but I remain very skeptical." end quote seems pretty much a judgment to me..think about it saint Okay, I thought about it. I don't find the statement by LadyRaven inappropriate. She was stating an opinion that Ozzie's fruit does not reflect that of a Spirit-filled person. She wasn't casting judgement on his final destiny. Rather, I see a concern for his soul. I mean...she prayed for him! Regardless, I wasn't defending and specific statements; I was defending the importance of "judging" behavior...bad or good. The Word of God gives us the ability to distinguish. When we refuse to draw judgement, we lose the ability to distinguish good from bad, which is much of the problem in today's society and church even. Too many misquote Jesus or twist what HE actually was teaching in Matthew 7. Former Presidents have used that passage of Scripture in order to divert attention and avoid judgement. Read Matthew 7 closer and show where Jesus said NOT to judge. He didn't. Rather he told us to judge righteously. if we are to judge behavior that is one thing and you are correct about it..however the statement "and if he didn't...which is more likely..his mind is so gone...fried from years of drug abuse" is extremely judgemental. Not only is it a judgement about Ozzy's ability to comprehend God and find salvation, it is also a judgement on others who have spent many years abusing drugs. To further this, the judgement is also on God's ability to take the ill and heal them and turn their lives around..completely heal their minds. And yes it was a judgement on his final destiny as you put it..read it more carefully. Regardless I am saying that whenever we look at these "behaviors" and make such statments we are completely judging..it isn't partial. It is all or nothing..how can there be a loving concern about behaviors that do not exhibit the fruit of the spirit when such statements are made. Which in turn is most definitely NOT righteous judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted July 11, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Well it depends on what and how we judge and why. So it is not simple. I agree we are not to judge the state of someone's eternal soul, we also are not to judge those on the outside of the faith according to Paul. But we are indeed to judge those on the inside according to Paul. I think Lady Raven was simply saying that Osborne is not a Christian and I agree with her, which is an important thing to say if he or anybody else is claiming he is a Christian. Not for the sake of judgement of ozzy, but for the sake of those who are not yet believers. We live in a crude, hedonistic culture, if we take away the veneer of some outward shows of Christian belief, our culture is essentially pagan in its actions. Ozzy is a part of that, and I have no problem criticizing ANYTHING on t.v. particularly MTV or the type of reality show which is the Osbornes. Are these people we should point out are the models? Should our kids be watching this guy and say what a success!!! Although from what I have seen of the show Ozzy is a walking anti-drug ad, the guys sounds half brain dead, his brain is half gone. So I think it is okay to criticize that, but where does it cross the line into judgementalism? It is a hard line. I guess I would error on the side of not judging. What I mean is given two choices, to judge when judgement may be called for, or to judge when it is not called for, which is the most dangerous mistake to make for our souls? I think it is safer for our souls to remain silent when judgement may be called for, than it is to judge others when we should not be. It is one reason I am glad I am not a pastor or a deacon who are charged with instituting church discipline. Talk about coming full circle in one post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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